Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: nocious kahmurrith dna the real information and rant
so what is the "bug"? Is it the ability to make what exactly? or is it the use of what exactly? or is it the ability to reduce levels to what exactly? or is it using your experiment points how exactly? or is it the process of doing what exactly?
Do you see my point? You didnt respond to any of the relevant questions I asked before. If its only using "certain" dna, then give me a list and Ill show you what can be done not using the creatures on the list.
If its not the dna its the fact that you can make low level high ham pets, then set the restrictions, where is the line between creating an overbalancing pet and creating the chef d'oevre of your class. Tell me what "bug" is being fixed. Tell me what is intended.
The only information I have to go by from that post is that a tc poster said that someone told him that they had talked to someone else who talked to Kel that the Kamurith bug will be fixed. Its like throwing me in a pitch black room and saying that certain actions will cause immediate death. However we cant tell you what those actions are. The only hint I can give you is that standing up may or may not lead to immediate death.....
This is what I have been saying, there is a flaw in the CL calculations which is amplified by certain dna. Mainly the ones which have equal resistances to everything plus armor. Species like this are merek deaths head, nocous kahmurrith and I think also the Kahmurrith snapper. As you take compare two species. I'd suggest the Blurrg Sand crawler and the Nocious kahmurrith.
In fact I think I'll try that 1,2,5 and3 ,4 mix and observe the results since it's only when you mix the nocious in thatway you get some very odd results.From past occourances the nocious gave me the CL20 uber pets while the blurrg duplicates gave me something which was CL34 rather than the expected CL43.
Talthazar wrote:
They simply need to make the CL calc look at all stats
I think normally it does, but whatever the bug is, is somehow throwing off the calculation.
I think you need to look again Talth, we all know that if you duplicate a wild animal such as the Mantirgue Reaper with it's 40% to kinetic and every and 70% to everything else then with every generation you'll find that the resistances are exactly the same. Essentially it's possible to have a CL10 pets with the same resistances as the CL55 Reaper. That goes to show that all stats are DEFINENTLY NOT being calculated.
DiusFidus wrote:
so what is the "bug"?
The bug might be multilayered. This system is complex enough it is hard to nail down, but Kel has the ability to look at actual equations/algorithms/tables to see exactly where it breaks down. We think , at least in part, Light Armor causing some resists to climb to 45% before being reset to 0 when light armor is engaged. These resists don't appear to be getting factored into the CL equation.
Furthermore, there is something going on with the weighting of samples that is causing a depression of CL's. This is best seen by multiple generation clones. I'm sure some depression of CL was meant to occur here, but its whacky.
The two of these combined are producing pets with CL's far below equivalent CL critters in the wild for similiar stats. CL2 8kHAM 300dmg clones are a prime example of this. This climbs the CL chain though and there is some depression of CL's all the way up that don't make sense. CL14 8kHAM 300dmg LightArmor is one example that i created without the use of the fortitude bug.
Is it the ability to make what exactly?
The ability to make clones with CL's that aren't even close to the CL's of wild creatures of the same CL. We expected, and were promised, a way to reduce the CL of creatures, however, given the other stated intentions of the system from the DEVs it is obvious the amount of CL reduction wasn't anticipated to be this radical. We're talking HUGE depressions to CLs, not just reasonable reductions in the 3 to 5 range (or 5 to 10, or whatever is 'reasonable').
or is it the use of what exactly?
It is the use of light armor samples in Physique (and most likely Prowess and Aggression.. the other two slots which MOST effect Fortitude) coupled with low level DNA in the Mental/Psychology slots. Successive cloning generations following this are amplifying the CL reduction.
or is it the ability to reduce levels to what exactly?
The super-sub10 pets are the biggest concern, but it bleeds upward to other CL's also. Comparing clones to wild animals this (these) bugs are causing radical reduction to CL's. What the exact CL formula is, we haven't cracked yet, but it is obvious that these sub10's have stats that far exceed what was availble in the 11 to 15 range prior to the patch. So no, I won't give you a CL equation, I'll just ask you to use common sense and see that something doesn't add up correctly when sub10's can have 10k HAMs.
or is it using your experiment points how exactly?
Experimenetation points aren't the major culprit here. Its the algorithms figuring CL. THough most cases the experimentation is done specifically in certain pools, or past certain stat levels, to avoid the bug correcting itself. No I won't tell you specifically about this, though i am positive you know and are just playing dumb as to where to put your points.
or is it the process of doing what exactly?
By purposeful selection of DNA samples with or without Light Armor (depending on where you stick them) the CL can be radically lowered. Related to this is the use of 2nd or higiher generation DNA to amplify this effect. Again, won't detail it step by step for achieving this.. if you don't know how, you don't need to know how.
Nowthe detractors will come back and call all of my explanations vague and how do I know it wasn't meant to be that way yadda yadda yadda I'll have to point back to the babyDNA supercreatures we could create before the ability to sample them was removed....some of you will remember the totally insane HAMs and Damage we could get out of babyDNA. There wasn't this see no evil, hear no evil band of BE's that defended our right to create those creatuers, and it is the exact same problem here now. Something isn't calculating correctly in the system and giving us some incredibly powerful pets at CL as low as 2. Lower to hit scores doesn't explain away the HUGE increases to HAM. Attack varies hardly at all, yet damages are thru the roof. At least with the Baby DNA critters the Attack shot thru the roof as the damage increased (might hit for 64k but only once every 13 minutes).
DiusFidus wrote: "so what is the "bug"? Is it the ability to make what exactly? or is it the use of what exactly? or is it the ability to reduce levels to what exactly? or is it using your experiment points how exactly? or is it the process of doing what exactly?"
And
"If its only using "certain" dna, then give me a list and Ill show you what can be done not using the creatures on the list. If its not the dna its the fact that you can make low level high ham pets, then set the restrictions, where is the line between creating an overbalancing pet and creating the chef d'oevre of your class."
Clearly no one knows what the devs are going to do to fix the obviousproblem of some pets being overly powerful for their CL. At this moment, the devs probably don't even know. I believe that the "bug" is simply a poor way of calculating CL. And the fix is to come up with a better way to calculate CL. I wouldn't be surprised, and would actually be pleased, if this is the fix that they put in.
I hope that they also allow us to see the CL as we are experimenting, so we can see how each experiment points affects CL. This would give them some very quick feedback on how well the players believe they are calculating the CL.
There is one very easy way to raise the CL rating for any clone, experiment on the damage they cause and the CL rating will rapidly rise. This is what makes me think that whatever calculations are being applied to figure out the CL of our clones the damage and DPS appears to be a major contrubutor while resistances are being utterly ignored.
"Let me phrase it this way for you, purposeful selection of dna samples, regardless of quality, regardless of light armor, regardless of where you put them, regardless of generation can causecl to be radically lowered (range of 10 levels or greater is radical)So what exactly does this prove? Again where is the bug in the process?"
It just shows further how out of whack the CL determination code is, that it can be manipulated several ways.
to sumorex, witless-purblind-contumelious-egotistic-inane.
Barely begins to sum it up...
Oh now he hurt my feelings with a thesaurus whatever will I do?!?!?!?!!
Keep making your exploited pets while you can.
If you'd like to waste more time answer these questions:
Why are these non-CH better by leaps and bounds over non-CH before the revamp?
Where did the DEVs say we would be able to create non-CH pets which are leaps and bounds better than before the revamp?
Where did the DEVs say that we'd be able to turn a CL30 wild pet into a CL2 bio-engineered pet?
Why do NO wild creatures of CL2 to 10 have a H or A or M of 10k?
Why do NO wild creatures have Armor 1?
How much do you sell each of these creations for?
My ego for an edit button.
That should read "Why do NO wild pets CL2 to 10 have Armor 1?"