Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: nocious kahmurrith dna the real information and rant
Only since just before Christmas, but that's really to be expected. Even I got to take a few days for the holiday
Otherwise, I do thinkit has been a pretty good source and getting better.
meroc wrote:
Killer, I won't quote, cause it'll get too long
The point I'm trying to make is that Tal decided this is a bug, not a dev. A few other people got behind that and it's escalated. So far, no one official has said if this is a bug or not (maybe it is, maybe it isn't,that isn't my call. Itisn't Talscall either, it's Kels).
I decided it was bug too, it's pretty obvious to me that it wasn't intended. I could be wrong but I sincerely doubt it.
The fact that everyones hassling people that are selling BE pets that are "too good" shows things have gone too far on this issue. People are even worried about buying "normal" BE pets now. Tal accused some folk of exploiting bugged DNA, they responded that none of "that" DNA had gone anywhere near the template. Sonow peoplehave decided that the whole system is flawed somehow. Thats up to the devs to decide, not Tal and crew.
They are right to be concerned. I wouln't buy a CL10 8k ham 45% pet for a huge sum right now, no way, and I wouldn't sell one either. At least not to a friend
I might collect p a wad of them and see what happens and deal with them after the smoke clears though.
I think Tal is wrong, and it's the cloning system that is bugged, not the DNA, which leaves even more room for it get nerfed in a bad way.
I also don't believe that using this cloning system that has this buginess at it's core is not exploiting at all, but on the other handeven if it's not exploiting I'm not going to sell uber CL10 pets for huge sums knowingthere's a decent chance they will be nerfed in acouple of weeks.
I'm not arguing that the "sub tens"should or shouldn't be nerfed. I'm arguing that it's the devs call to make, not ours, and anything else is rumor mongering that's having an adverse effect on our profession.
I'm not arguing whether they should, you can't win that argument as it's subjective and everyone has their own opinion. I'm only arguing whether it -will- get nerfed which has nothing to do with whether it should or not.
As to the fight, I was reffering to the so called "uber" pet:
CL2
9090 health / 4752 action / 4214 mind
43% to everything but stun
140-150 damage / 2.17 speed / 24% accuracy
No doubt one of your CL 23's could whip it solo as well, so how good is it then really?
It's actual HAM is 6k and it's not going to hit very much,very often or very hard. The only thing impressive about it is the health pool and the resist (which are very close to a post nerf Mountain Squill). The rest of it is pretty ordinary.
It's a tank that is as good or better than the level 34-36 wild creatures, which the last patch's intention was to keep out of the hands of CH dabblers. Now they are a non CH creature. The CH nerf was to spread out skill ts in a way so that you had to have more than just a couple boxes in a couple lines to get a tank good enough to tankhigh level MOBs. As it is my CL8 8k ham spat can tank level 50 creatures for me as well as any wild CL34 pet. That post nerf squill is a CL34.
I would say that CL2 pet should be about a CL 20-23. That's 10 times it's level.
Talthazar wrote:
While you guys are arguing, you might want to remember that we do have info from a TC player that this is a bug and will be fixed. I don't have anything official on exactly what will be fixed how and when and probably won't untill the holidays are over.It's hard to look at a cl 2 creature with cl 30ish stats and not think there's a problem here somewhere.
Hey Talth...welcome back! 
Could you point me to that post...I missed it.
Thanks
Ok so where do I start.. This thread has gone down hill from where I wanted it to go. And for that I have no controll expect over what I posted.. Did I get angry yes.. And I am sure I will do it again.. But to answer some of the qestions..
Do the research as the others have done.
Hmm. Ok lets spell this out. No I dont post alot. That does not mean I dont do the research on a class I play ALL the time. I have done it all. As for the posses running around here. There are going to be 3 factions.
1) That dont care
2) Ones that are purest and want to make the game a better place
3) Ones that feel it is about time
For the 1's out there. They dont care.. Summo I would assume is one of them. He runs around throwing stupid remarks around trying to goat people. Well I am done dealing with that.
For the 2's out there. I do belive that the game should be a better place. But for me to decide what is and what is not fair and then not do it becuase I FEEL it is not right is just plain silly. For you strong enough to not do it and keep your dignity gratz you. I will not. So we can both agree to disagree on the power of pets.
I am a 3.
So now on to answering some of the other posts.
You did no research frames of mind:
Before you condem what I am saying take into account just becuase I dont have 10000 posts under my name does not mean I dont know what I am talking about. I have been doing this for quiet some time. I can make pretty much any creature I want with the stats I want.. Can I create a creature that I posted.. Not to those numbers exactly. Why? Becuase it can not be done. And that is what I was trying to get at.. You can not depend on anything becuase of the varibles.. There are too many to keep it in a sane manner. I have over 10,000 Clones made under the new system. All logged into a database that I have created.. I have gone through the numbers. And I have plotted changes in what is being done. To say that I dont know what I am talking about is your descion. But I can answer ANY question on clone and be resonably correct in the matter of creating a clone.
Tal-N: Your a purest in the sense you feel it is your job to balance the game. As with your "PACT" post and other information. And we both talked and you where dead set in trying to change my mind and I was dead set in trying to change yours. Did we get anything accomplished. Well one thing. That you can make a CL10 pet out of anything and not just the Kahmurrith DNA. But to answer some of the things. Stop making this a personality issue. It doesnt matter my thoughts on what power a clone should be. And it doesnt matter your thoughts. You missed what I was saying. It is not what we say that matters it is what the Devs say.. Do you think for one minute that if the devs thought there was a bug in that they would have left the ability to continue that? No.. Bugs that are that bad are fixed in emergency patch. Just like the faction bug and any other one. They could simplly remove the ability to re-sample any of our creatures. Thus limiting the fact.
Devs do not post 100% truths here.. Nope hate to hurt your feelings. They dont. Thunderheart posts what he feels is important to the development of the game. If I am wrong I am sure Thunderheat will post to the contrary. But as a game dev my self I can tell you that you dont go overboard with information. What they where thinking I HAVE NO CLUE about where they wanted to truely go with BE to balance it out. Could this all be a happy test of thiers to see where they need to tweak things? Who knows.. Can you say what they are thinking? Nope.. You can think what they tell you. And they have not come out and said. BE's should not be able to make a CL 10 creature with 10K ham.. Nope I checked the boards. No where has that been said. YOU DONT KNOW I DONT KNOW WE ALL DONT KNOW! But they will break it all down in the fashion that they always do when they have it completed or they might never say anything becuase they feel it is completed.
Stop the insanity. Flames and such. You want to flame do it in game where I can throw venom and hatred. I am good at that. But lets get back on subject.. This is not a personality contest or a who you feel the game should be discussion. This is about the DNA and how it interacts with our profession..
Nocious Kahmurrith DNA IS NOT BUGGED! It is how it should be. Read through my first post. It is simple. It all works out with the DNA and Armor and Resists. Address what I am saying on that instead of flamming.
True true.
I'll stick to Frenzied Grauls, Horned Voritors and the likefor now 
Thank you Sumorex
"have had third person contact with Kel, and the Kahmurith bug will be corrected. The bug arises, as far as I can tell, from the fact that when examined these pets don't say their resists."
Talthazar, not to nitpick, but from my reading of that there are two different things happening that are being called bugs.
First this is a I heard from someone who heard from someone etc remark. Not doubting the validity of it but with the limited information given, it is still vague at best.
Second according to the poster the "bug" being fixed is that when examined, nocuous kamariths do not show their resists. This is a seperate issue to the ability to make high cl pets. If the devs fix it so nocuous kamuriths show their resists it changes nothing as far as the ability to make low cl level high ham or high resist or armored or high damage pets.
There are several things you can do to lower the cl of a creature significantly. One of the easiest was posted earlier in this thread. Saying "the kamurith bug will be corrected" tell me absolutely nothing about the ability to lower a cl as it can be done with any creatures. Once again, there is no clear or even vague line as to what it is intended for a Bio Engineer who is great at his craft, patient, and driven. If a person who only BIo Engineers because of a holo can just throw some crap together a couple times and reduce cl level by 10 in 2 generations then should a Bio Engineer who is driven and spends a day or two days working to make one creature be able to reduce a cl by 20 or more? If so then is the argument not that non ch uber pets shouldnt be made but that the argument is it shouldnt be easy to make them? If not, then what is even the purpose of having a BE skill, is it just to make your journey to jedihood that much more difficult?
Tal-N wrote:
An interesting fact is though that 49% protection is superior to armor since it cannot be bypassed with AP or stun damage which is designed to bypass all armor according to the guide.
Sumorex wrote:
From quite awhlie ago when we thought it was just the kamurith causing a severe depression of CL, of course since then we've seen it other more deliberate actions, but the kamurith is still the easiest to perform this on.
Actually it's just as easy with merek death head or any other creature with fort over 500 with low resists. Any of them can make pets at less than CL10 with 40+% resists and 5-8k HAM.
The trick is getting a CL10 or less by gimping with a trash DNA, but mantaining close to 500 fort in the initial combine, allowing for experimentation of several points in phys to get resists past 40%. Then when close to 50% or 500 fort, spend the rest in aggression.
You get a pet with half the mind as it has health, but that's not a big problem since health gets twice the damage in PvE combat anyway.
They simply need to make the CL calc look at all stats and have a minimum CL threshhold for each stat,otherwise there will always be loopholes.
No, I think it's the same bug, he described the procedure to Keldarin, it just appeared to him to be coming from the nocuous dna. When he made the post here several people pointed out it could be done without the nocuous dna and I passed that along as well.
Talthazar wrote:
Second according to the poster the "bug" being fixed is that when examined, nocuous kamariths do not show their resists.
No, I think it's the same bug, he described the procedure to Keldarin, it just appeared to him to be coming from the nocuous dna. When he made the post here several people pointed out it could be done without the nocuous dna and I passed that along as well.
also it shows nothing when the eff is 0%. check any mob
I think normally it does, but whatever the bug is, is somehow throwing off the calculation.
before you call the current system balanced please try this test
Find 2 creatures withalmost the same CL, HAM,and resists,but one has armor and the other does not have armor (possible suggestion picket plain walker and a armortype of quanker, lizzard or even Kamurith or merek deathhead if ya want)
Sample away at the creatures untill you have enough of the same qualityDNA to make a clone of each. (ALL average or ALL above average or ALL HQ etc)
Make one clone using the non armor DNA and the second clone using the Armor DNA (no experimentation just a base line test)
The results from thetests that I have done that are close to this show me that the clones made from theDNA sampled from armored creatures might have higher resistances than theclones made with non armor DNA samples, will have about the same HAM and damage as the clones made withnon armor DNA samples, but will have a lower CL than the clones made with non armor DNA samples. If I use DNA samples from a CL 40 armored creature, I would end up with a clone with a CL about the same or lower than if I used DNA sampled from a CL 25 no armor creature.
It seems to me like there is an "improper" CL calculation done whenthe armor rating is "lost" from the DNA samples during the DNA templet combine. It's hard to tell exactly how the darn systemshould work without imput from the devs but given that there are CL 10 clones out there with light armor, I think it is safe to say that there is a bug and the system is not balanced