Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: The infamous CL10!!!
NancyJ
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:51 pm
#79
Novock wrote:Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey was the best... just my opinion.Still think you're a good correspondent just disagree obviously on this matter.Wish you both the best and as I see I am a disruption not desired in this community I will restrainl from making future comments in the Bio Engineering thread. You win Kevm I'm gone.Anyone reading this you have a great correspondent to which Iknow will continue to work for the BE community(dirty mouth though :smileyvery-happyplease ingore any of my comments made in this thread and don't let me be a distraction. I wish the community the best of luck.
Dont go away, I love a good flame fest - you just have to chill and go with the flow more, stick around for a while and you'll get used to our ways
But seriously though, you can form entire sentences and can argue points without references to nazis, feeling the need to state your qualifications or degrading to the point of critisicing another poster's spelling - you're welcome here.
We argue and we bicker but we all love each other
and we're all MAD! it comes with the territory. And yeah, I have a foul mouth but you'll learn to love me, especially when someone's giving you **edit** - I'll be there to back you up
SkyPreacher1
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:53 pm
#80
Zapper,
I am a Master CH/ and a Master BE. It effects me, both positively and negatively. Positively when you will focus on creating pets that are truly Master class, negatively when as BE's you keep introducing these monster BE non-ch pets. How do I compete with that. There is no way on God's green earth that a bantha, which is a higher level wild creature, should be rode by a non-ch. We can't tame non-ch banthas, but we as BE's can make them. You can make any pet for mount and you do, and I can too.
But does being able to do something make doing that thing right.
So while you are selling these aberations, there is no one left who wants what we as master CH's can tame. As of late, I no longer train any BE pet that is a loophole pet. Sorry. All I am doing is cutting my own throat as a Master CH.
I still think the solution is simple for both CH and BE.
Simply attach CL to each skin. A razor cat, no matter what dna you put in it starts as a level 25 pet. Then it doesn't matter.
That's how it works for CH, you can not tame nor control a pet until you have reached that level.
I really don't know how the Devs plan to fix this but I bet both the CH in me and BE in me will not be happy.
Kevm
Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:14 pm
#81
Novock wrote:
Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey was the best... just my opinion.
Still think you're a good correspondent just disagree obviously on this matter.
Wish you both the best and as I see I am a disruption not desired in this community I will restrainl from making future comments in the Bio Engineering thread. You win Kevm I'm gone.
Anyone reading this you have a great correspondent to which Iknow will continue to work for the BE community(dirty mouth though :smileyvery-happy
Don't leave over a simple difference of opinion. If everyone left because of somehting like that this place would be empty. I don't think there is a single person who frequents this forum whp;s always agreed with everyone else. Debates, questions, arguments. They all happen here and usually are self mederated to the point where they don't degrade totally
So this isn't a contest. There is no 'winner'. Just chalk it up as a difference of opinion and continue to contribute. Trust me, there will be a time where you and I will be debating a common point of view with someone else.
Every point of view is important, just not always agreed upon.
Novock
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:20 am
#82
What are they suppose to be?The stats ofa cl10 pet? Please show the SOE stated stats of what an acceptable cl10 pet would be I've been trying to figure this one out. You have people who say they should be about 4k HAM you have others that say only 1K HAM. This could be easily solved by one post of a DEV telling us the standard accetable stats of a BE pet for CL10 rather than everyone arguing that their prospective on this matter and that matter is the correct one. And then how are you going to achieve this... fix the "bugged" DNA? No you have to fix all DNA and then the formula that derives CLfor as already stated and as most BEs understand a nice CL10 can be made without using MH DNA it just takes more work through generational sampling.
To complicated matters further you realize by changing the calculations you are weakening all pets not just Cl10 pets. If you change the caluclations to attribute these stats higher than you will get less "bang for the level" at lvl 20 and lvl 30 and lvl 40 not simply at lvl 10.
Though I admire NancyJ and many here i disagree on the stats that have been promoted. I am master merchant and master BE (have exploration 4 as well) have very little points left but enough to get to lvl 24 creature handler or a block or two over novice marksmen so I choose CH. I don't see the purpose and completely nerfing or as it has been stated "fixing" the DNA situation. I am less of any kind of PVE and certainly PVP threat to any other profession with my 0/0/0/4 cl 24 ability then a novice marksmen so I'm lost in the all overpowered argument.I'm fine with what I can do with my pets I simply don't see why my ability needs to be further weakened. With no skill points in anythingI can operate a droid thathas 3189 HAm all three bars, 40% resist tonot only knietic but energy and blast and so on,fires at 0.75 speedwith a .41 to hit at 178-188 dmg but as being argued here I would have to have not only novice CH but probably two blocks in order to control a pet with the same stats as a droid that everyone can operate.But if thats what is going to happen I would much apreciate some kind of calculation to know if my mutligenerational pets are illegal or so called by some. I do have some nice pets made from MH but I also have some nice pets with no MH in them at all. Some of them took over 4 hours to create through generational work. Am I doing something illegal there as well? What exactly should raise the pet CL level its aggresiveness and dmg output its resists what? Am I going to have to make cookie cutter pets? Why can't I sacrifice other resist to get higher knietic resist at a lower lvl? Or give up dmg for greater HAM? Or give up resist for greater dmg? Thats the fun of crafting these BE pets and what gives us the ability to sell them over tamed ones, but the fixes you are asking for are going to directly effect your ability to do this as a BE for the calculations that allow you to do this is what you are claiming to be broke and what wil be taken away in any SOE fix. When SOE fixes these DNA calculations it will not solely be listening to the BE community but the CH community who is constantly yelling for tameable pets as powerful and as unique as BE created ones. They are going to fix it.. and they will solve both problems the easy way.... they will make BE pets less custom in order to keep CL lvls in check, resulting in BE equivalents of wild pets and why pay me for all my time time creating a pet when you can walk outside and tame one yourself.
I caution this community to blindly ask for fixes without any stated acceptable standards. With no set guidlines for CL calulations and flexibility the Pet creation part BE could end up greatly hamper while all you were actually wanting was to get rid of the uber CL 10 pets and you all know as well as I do how quickly SOE fixes things.
I'm also a bit confused by the hostility shown to those who disagree. This would simply be a forum to express ideas and thoughts about the issues that effect us in this game. As I already stated I have a great admiration for those in this community and I think we have a great correspondent in NancyJ but however I don't know that I agree with ganging on those who are in opposition. Comments that amount in pretty much the statement "who cares what u think" should be forwned upon not encouraged. The beginning of this thread asked what "you think teh stats should be" and not what you think about what others think. Voice your views and move on there's nothing to be gained by attacking someone's thinking. We could get more people involved in these discussions and debates over ideas if the personal hostilites were taken out of the forums. I call on this correspondent to actively pursue a sense of belonging for everyone and that everyone's thoughts and ideas are welcomed even if they are not the accepted thoughts of the majority or the correspondent.
Kevm
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:36 am
#83
Novock wrote:
I caution this community to blindly ask for fixes without any stated acceptable standards. With no set guidlines for CL calulations and flexibility the Pet creation part BE could end up greatly hamper while all you were actually wanting was to get rid of the uber CL 10 pets and you all know as well as I do how quickly SOE fixes things.
We are supposed to set the guidelines now? The fact is there is a bug in the system. Once that is tracked down and fixed, we will then have to see how the changes affect us. No other profession sets the standard for strength of their products. AS don't tell the devs how good their armor should be. WS do not tell the devs how powerful their weapons should be. The Devs decide. That's always going to be the case. Why waste time trying to decide what we think pets of different CL's should look like. That does nothing but cause arguments, and ultimately, will have people complaining that their idea wasn't implimented when the system gets fixed.
Message Edited by Kevm on 09-04-2004 05:58 PM
Novock
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:42 am
#84
Hmm, i figured it wouldn't take long before someone made a direct quote and attacked my words but thats fine. Guidlines yes guidlines. Another words you ask for some guidlines from the DEVs, i didn't say anything about us setting the guidlines, but I disagree that you just say yeah these are to powerful fix em whithout inquiring to some guidelines to how CL should be figured so we know what they ought to be.
Zapper_Weisman
Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:59 am
#85
Kevm wrote:
I don't see what you're trying to get at. Its the calcualtion that determines the CL. The devs have already said they will not give us that formula. So the only way we will know what they ought' to be is when the system is fixed and we see what thay are.
Why not try to figure out the formula? Just bc the devs wont tell us doesnt mean we cant find out.
PurpleWarrior
Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:33 am
#86
Kevm wrote:
Don't leave over a simple difference of opinion. If everyone left because of somehting like that this place would be empty.
If everyone who argued with me was to leave, there'd only be me and Nancy here - and maybe Zadokk cos he's got used to me 
Dalmartynn
Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:36 am
#87
NancyJ wrote:
A nerf is to take something that deemed to powerful and lessen its power - that is not the same as taking a problem system that can be exploited to create abominations of nature and fixing it so that it works in the way that it was intended.
Bio-Engineers, by trade, are meant to create abominations of nature, such as this here; (/removesCover) my five-@$$ed monkey. They are freaks. They are abnormal. They are highly "unnatural". That is what we do, our livelihood. Are we doomed to creating hydroponic tissues for the rest of our careers. As I see it, if our pets get "fixed" to the point of 1k HAM and crap resistances, then these tailor and chef additives will be our staple products. Which really suxxors because they are not even complete items, they are worth nothing to anyone except a tailor or chef. And if said tailor or chef already has a decent supplier, the rest of us are phased out. Besides, what the heck is a tailor tissue???
Zapper_Weisman
Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:58 am
#88
I agree with that. Most elite melee classes do not need these pets in normal situations. My bf is actually master TKM/swordsman right now, he has one and almost never uses it. He doesnt need it. But, when he was rifleman and you loose INSANE amounts of accuracy when your target charges you, he useda tank all the time. I think these pets are extremely valuable to gameplay because they aid marksman, and keep alive crafters, entertainers and any non-combat people. But, in all fairness, I will not sell these pets ONLY to markman and non-combats, especially considering they can change their prof on a whim, and I have no real way to tell what prof some people are unless they are new.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:
If a master TKA walks up to an enraged Rancor lair, he can take it down in 30 seconds, the whole thing. What good does a pet do him?
Master Swordsman can tank better than my pets, they last longer and they deal more damage. They don't store, their specials work, and they don't run away. I am confused, noobs may need a pet but once they hit any novice elite combat profession the need for a pet disappears.
Zapper_Weisman
Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:11 am
#89
SkyPreacher1 wrote:
Zapper,
I am a Master CH/ and a Master BE. It effects me, both positively and negatively. Positively when you will focus on creating pets that are truly Master class, negatively when as BE's you keep introducing these monster BE non-ch pets. How do I compete with that.
When I was master CH/BE my twins, triplets and my CL64 had no problems taking down an uber. They are not better than any MCH pets, they dont even come close. And you, as a CH, are not supposed to compete with the sales market of BE, CH is nota crafting class, and thus is not supposed to compete with a proffession that crafts and sells their products. The ability to sell tamed pets is a bonus to a CH, not any core of the class.
There is no way on God's green earth that a bantha, which is a higher level wild creature, should be rode by a non-ch. We can't tame non-ch banthas, but we as BE's can make them. You can make any pet for mount and you do, and I can too.
You're fighting an entirely different fight with this one. You're arguing here that BEs shouldnt be able to make anything that isnt comparable to the wild. This isnt in line with the very nature of the BE proffession. As many people have said all across these forums: Our job is to better what is in the wild.
But does being able to do something make doing that thing right.
Well, no, philosophically speaking. Being able to murder doesnt make murder right. We're not philosphers though, we're Bio-engineers. All our power and strength is based upon our abilities to manipulate and change physical things for the better. To say that because we can doesnt mean we should basically means: you're in the wrong proffession.
So while you are selling these aberations, there is no one left who wants what we as master CH's can tame. As of late, I no longer train any BE pet that is a loophole pet. Sorry. All I am doing is cutting my own throat as a Master CH.
MCHs were not intended to provide the masses with pets... BEs were. So that you cant sell your pets as easily as us goes with both of our proffessions... You are meant to weild pets, we are meant to create them.
I still think the solution is simple for both CH and BE.
Simply attach CL to each skin. A razor cat, no matter what dna you put in it starts as a level 25 pet. Then it doesn't matter.
That's how it works for CH, you can not tame nor control a pet until you have reached that level.
Once again, you are mixing up your proffession distinctions. Not all proffession are, or should, be equal. Hence in combat classes, different classes do different damage types. Melee classes are stuck to blast and kinetic, but are generally more powerful. Ranged classes get a wider variety of damage types per class, but also tend to do less damage per hit. Medics heal certain wounds, but no BF or mind, entertainers heal that. All the classes are balanced with eachother. CHs tame and control the pets,BEs make thembetter. To limit BE to your limitations is like saying all combat classes should only be able to do kinetic damage.
SkyPreacher1
Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:54 am
#91
Hi Zapper,
How long ago were you an MCH? Since December our pets are virtually useless except against very small and harmless MOBS.
I have yet to find two CL 30ish pets that can tank anything worth killing.
Triplets would all have to be in the low 20's and when I send that combination against a krayt they last about 4 seconds apiece. Same with twins.
Zapp you aren't making a better bantha, you are in reality nerfing it so a non-ch can ride it. So why should a non-ch get to ride a bantha? If it was supposed to be a "perk" of CH?
Not true, before the great pet nerf and lowering of CL to 10 i regularly sold guf drolgs and gurrecks to non -CH's and it was a lot of fun selling a pet that was trained etc. I thought I brought a lot of joy into peoples lives. Not anymore. That source of revenue has dried up.
And I believe that setting certain CL on certain creature skins would end what you could produce. Who wants a level 10 monster durni? While we struggle over what the formula is and is this legal. It should be very simple, you make a gurreck you know the base CL for that creature is going to be 25, You make a durnin CL 2. you make a kima CL10. That isn't hard that's simple. So if someone comes who is a non ch and says I would like a Kimogilia you say sorry can't do it. These are your skin choices. If you want more invest the SP in CH and you can have more.