Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Getting to know you and your profession!
Mayor_Woosh
Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:53 am
#690
And todays special is Roast Kimogila tongue with Gurk King eyeball garnish !
dyck wrote:
Hi Tiggs, thanks for stopping by.
Although I havent been a chef for much longer than a month I would have to say that its been a pretty good profession so far. Im enjoying chef way more than i did doctor. I havent run into any major issues althoughI do have a few pet peeves.
First, we need more art for the food icons, everything looks the same. And with the constant need to create a trademark some individuals like to make up their own stupid names in place of the food's proper name, like t bone steak, and ice cream (what were they thinking???). Anyways in the heat of the moment while a nightsister is choking you to death you really dont want to be examining the food to find out what it is. More art for the food is good.
Second, some method of moving 40 crates at once would be a nice touch. Its not completely necessary, but some way to highlight multiple objects would definitely save us some time.
And third, inventory overload issues. I know it doesnt have much to do with chef, but when im carrying all the stuff over to the factory I get hit with this big message Inventory overloaded. Its especially amusing when the inventory isnt even close to being overloaded. I got pinned down with 13 items once. Inventory overload just sucks.
Another thing I almost forgot, It would be cool if there were lootable food enhancement typecomponents we could put into our food.Docs have their janta blood, Armorsmiths have their Nightsister Armor shards and scales. With chef we dont have anylootable food enhancements. We need some kimogila tongues or something.
And as far as the wookie aprons go, dont bother fixing it, less competition for me
Message Edited by dyck on 10-12-2004 12:36 AM
Grambacca
Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:09 pm
#691
WOW! Someone asking our opinion and what we see as probs! Nice!
Now....................show us some back bone by DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!
I agree with every statement made in every previous post to mine. (I'm to lazy to retype it all, shoot me).
Yes I'm in a bad mood as I post this. Probly shouldn't post when in this kind of mood but you'd be this way too if you were waiting for your favorite part of the game to become relevant again. /sigh
I just hope the rumors are true about Lucasarts taking this game back from SOE.
DanceRulez
Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:48 pm
#693
As a further example of the lack of dev communication with our profession, I would point out the recent release of the new Entertainer Theater quest. It has been noticed that the theater manager NPC's are now present in Live. Finally the first bit of Entertainer content has been released, and it is done without fanfare, without word from our correspondent, and without even a mention in the patch notes. It's as if it has just been tossed out there for someone to find eventually as if we aren't even worth telling about it, and almost as if the devs are embarrassed to release it. If this were some new Padawan trial or something, I rather imagine that word of it would be released somewhere for everyone to see. Now I'm sure the devs are not actually embarrassed about it, and it is something that has been talked and advertised as coming new content, and I'm sure it will make it into some patch notes eventually, but can you see how the way in which it was actually released looks to those of us who play and care about this profession? Can you see how it perpetuates the perceived attitude that our professions aren't important to the devs?
Now compound that with the fact that when this quest was in testing and a dev asked us for feedback, we presented them with numerous concerns about the fact that the reward dance was broken like formal and lyrical and about the 400k XP cost to learn this "Novice" dance, and yet these concerns were neither addressed nor fixed while still in testing. Now that it's in live we can see that nothing has been done about the issues we were concerned with, nor has any attempt been made explain why these issues persist despite our concern. What clearer message could the devs send without coming right our saying, "Thank you for your feedback. It has been duly noted and discarded." We're not even unreasonable people here. If the devs realize the issues with our broken base dances, and decided to release the dance anyway on the faith that they would soon be able to fix the core problem, then fine - say so. If they kept the 400k XP requirement but acknowledge the unfortunate timing with the recent FS changes, but decided to keep it anyway because maybe they're going to be starting to use XP requirements for new skills from other professions too or for some other such reason then fine - say so. I'm asking for the devs to show us some minimal respect and concern for our profession. (By the way, I don't plan on participating in this new quest anytime soon, as I have no excitement about learning a new broken dance, and even if I did, despite the fact that I'm a Master Dancer and have been for a year, I couldn't learn it now anyway, because I already happened to spend all my dance XP on FS Senses XP and don't have enough left to learn it. This should not be taken as a lack of interest in new content, but rather as disappointment in the way in which this new content was released, and the fact that it was released with a broken reward.)
The last thing I want to say, is that this frustration is not aimed at you, Tiggs. I already hold you in higher regard than TH, for example, simply for being brave enough to come in here and talk to us, which as far as I know, he has never done. It is aimed more at the dev team in general and the overall perception they project to our community despite whatever their actual intentions may be and despite whatever details may go on behind the scenes that we know nothing about. Our perception is based on words and actions, and both have been severely lacking when it comes to issues that concern us. I ask you honestly, Tiggs, what would you think if you were in our dance shoes?
Now compound that with the fact that when this quest was in testing and a dev asked us for feedback, we presented them with numerous concerns about the fact that the reward dance was broken like formal and lyrical and about the 400k XP cost to learn this "Novice" dance, and yet these concerns were neither addressed nor fixed while still in testing. Now that it's in live we can see that nothing has been done about the issues we were concerned with, nor has any attempt been made explain why these issues persist despite our concern. What clearer message could the devs send without coming right our saying, "Thank you for your feedback. It has been duly noted and discarded." We're not even unreasonable people here. If the devs realize the issues with our broken base dances, and decided to release the dance anyway on the faith that they would soon be able to fix the core problem, then fine - say so. If they kept the 400k XP requirement but acknowledge the unfortunate timing with the recent FS changes, but decided to keep it anyway because maybe they're going to be starting to use XP requirements for new skills from other professions too or for some other such reason then fine - say so. I'm asking for the devs to show us some minimal respect and concern for our profession. (By the way, I don't plan on participating in this new quest anytime soon, as I have no excitement about learning a new broken dance, and even if I did, despite the fact that I'm a Master Dancer and have been for a year, I couldn't learn it now anyway, because I already happened to spend all my dance XP on FS Senses XP and don't have enough left to learn it. This should not be taken as a lack of interest in new content, but rather as disappointment in the way in which this new content was released, and the fact that it was released with a broken reward.)
The last thing I want to say, is that this frustration is not aimed at you, Tiggs. I already hold you in higher regard than TH, for example, simply for being brave enough to come in here and talk to us, which as far as I know, he has never done. It is aimed more at the dev team in general and the overall perception they project to our community despite whatever their actual intentions may be and despite whatever details may go on behind the scenes that we know nothing about. Our perception is based on words and actions, and both have been severely lacking when it comes to issues that concern us. I ask you honestly, Tiggs, what would you think if you were in our dance shoes?
Message Edited by DanceRulez on 10-14-2004 01:52 PM
Tralmek
Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:32 pm
#694
Good Tiggs, I missed my introduction! Please, Please I pray you. Hear it now, for I would lay rest the grace in my tongue and speak plainly. Days like these are far too rare to cheapen with heavy-handed words. So I’m afraid without any ado whatsoever here I am. One of the dancers, raised just before the darkness of the AFK era settled upon us.
/shrug
You wanted to know us as well as our profession.
I thought this would be a good way to start it. 
I’m sure you’ve seen my posts in the Entertainer “quest” feedback thread, as well as all over the threads in the Dance, Entertainer, and Musician forums with rich suggestions on how to eliminate our number 1 problem (AFK macrotaining/buffbotting) as well as how to add content to the Social professions as a whole. (yeah, the link for the parentheses above is deliberate--AFK’ers are as empty & unneeded as that link) So, in all that time, I imagine you’ve gotten to know me as a great guy with a dark sense of humor who uses sarcasm to the nth degree. 
Anything else you should know about me...? Hmm...I’ve mastered Dancer on a server or two, and currently am working Liloman up the Dance tree as well. Lilo is also a Master Entertainer and a Master Musician, so you can look forward to further introductions when you post to those boards. Tralmek, as you can see from my sig, is a Master Artisan and a Master Doctor who has dreamed of being a shipwright forever. Ok, so now that you know a little more about me, how can I let you know more about our profession? I’m sure you’ve already tried familiarizing yourself with our problems from the top five dancer issues, so there’s no need for me to repeat those--besides, you’ve already had them reiterated to you in this thread. Actually, there is one main thing everyone needs to understand about the Social professions.
The one thing I think everyone should know about us is that we’re in the Social Professions--we’re social people. We thrive on communication, we thrive on empathy, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. The other members of this social community have to be the nicest people I’ve ever met, but we all feel beaten down and neglected, not just because we’ve been put off time and time again, but because we placed our trust in SOE and the development team. We’ve been promised new content for a long time, but we just now got our first new song and dance, and the feedback thread for the “quest” testing didn’t receive the slightest bit of attention--the “quests” were pushed to live exactly as they were on test.
I believe I speak for just about everyone when I say that we could have dealt with being put off for so long if we hadn’t received so many empty promises of content in the past. Please allow me the liberty to present a history of SWG Ents here.
June 2003 - it is implied that new content will be added for all professions every few months (never an absolute promise, but certainly implied)
July 2003 - First outcry against AFK macrotainers
August 2003 - I create Liloman & pick up Entertainer (ok, not a milestone for anyone else, but it was important to me
)October 2003 - Hologrinding introduced (AFK increases beyond all previous imagination)
October 2003 - Outcry against AFK macrotaining increases, but Entertainers feel there will be Dev intervention
December 2003 - Liloman Masters Musician!
December 2003 - Someone has bright idea of giving everyone a holocron (AFK increases even more)
December 2003 - perhaps to prevent more Entertainers from hitting “cancel” the Hutt Casino Themepark is announced (it is said to have new songS and danceS as loot)
Late Winter 2004 - Hutt Casino delayed in favor of Corellian Corvette (and then later until the nebulous term “after JTL”)
Late Winter 2004 - First buffbots appear
Early Spring 2004 - scores of Entertainers have hit “cancel” & Entertainer “quests” are announced again
June 2004 - n00b droid Entertainer missions are copied to TC “Theater Managers.” Loot is said to be new songS and danceS
June 2004 - Entertainer “quests” delayed until after Jedi Revamp
August 2004 - hologrind ends/FS xp grind begins
September 2004 - Entertainer “quests” reannounced on TC, identical except for now without numerical references during performance & with a 400k xp penalty. (also, only one new song and one new (broken) dance...not the multiple ones as previously stated)
September 2004 - Ent feedback requested for “quests”
October 2004 - Unexplained delay in release of Entertainer “quests”
October 2004 - Entertainer “quests” introduced to live--feedback apparently unread
Sorry, Tiggs. I didn’t mean for the timeline to go so long, but you weren’t here for some of this, so it’s possible you don’t know our history. As some of the most sensitive people in-game, Entertainers are understanding of a lot of things, but when we are constantly promised things that never come to fruition, when our feedback apparently has no effect and appears to not even be read, we become bitter.
If you take nothing else from this post, please take this, Tiggs: Treat the Entertainers with care, like the paying customers they are. We put up with a lot of flack in-game and out. If a promise is made to the community, please keep it on schedule. If the schedule cannot be made specific, at least come to us and personally assure us/work with us on our content and solving our issues. It would be amazing to have the personal attention the Smugglers got from GreenMarine working toward their revamp. Entertainers are people too--we deserve attention as much as (if not more than*) any other paying customers.
Thanks for stopping in, I hope this has been an enjoyable and informative read!
-Lilo
*Why should the social professions receive more developer attention than other professions? The Social professions are an exciting new aspect of massively multiplayer online games--combat, healing and even crafting have been done a million times over in other games, but the Social professions are an entirely new creation. This development team has an opportunity to do what no other team has ever dared to do--to work on an entirely new playstyle and make it viable in the MMORPG environment. They’ve been given the ability to mould these professions any way they like, but to do so would require them to reduce the number of resources devoted to combat. I submit that since combat has been done so many times before, all it really is, is a reskinning of old combat systems. On the other hand, social playstyles are new and fresh--something that would be a real achievement in the gaming world if they were to be developed with enough care.
Message Edited by Tralmek on 10-14-2004 03:34 PM
Tralmek
Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:40 pm
#695
Oh, I forgot to mention...speaking of communication and reassurance, it would be nice to know if you were still looking in on this thread from time to time, Tiggs.
kirah_ashlin
Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:45 pm
#696
Honestly, I swear, Lilo . . . if I weren't already married to the most wonderful man on Bria . . . 
Ka_ren
Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:53 pm
#697
Here's my idea for an entertainers event. Maybehavecertain npcsdo a cantina crawl. They'd get to the cantina and an impromptu partywould start. There would have to be some sort of interaction tho so that the afk'ers would not get an unmerited badge. I for one would like to to see Han Solo come in and ask for a buff.
FranzSolo
Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:35 pm
#698
High end game concerns for a carbineer:
With a carbine, I truly feel inneffective when fighting high lvl mobs. Due to these factors I can think of:
Weapons and Attacks:
No true mind attack, and inability for states to actually stick, and limited to 3 types of damage, one AP2 gun with the most common damage type.
Lack of defenses:
PvP counterattack doesn't seem to work and 2 melee defense for a combat profession? Not to mention NO state defenses.
Low end concerns:
HAM costs. At the start you almost hurt yourself more than a creature using specials, of course this is unbuffed, hence low end game content.
*note: I have been a Master carb for about a year/Enforcer for about 4 months, so I obviously enjoy it, but it's more of the image I chose. I actually want to be reminded of star wars when I play, and blaster shots remind me much more of star wars than the clank of steel, and melee. All I ask is that these professions get balanced, I don't care if others want to be melee at all, I just want to contend with other combat professions.
sweatyclimber
Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:24 pm
#699
considering the compleete omitance about the quests I'd say tiggs is no better then the rest and javi you hit the nail on the head with this... i would start a What TF thread ect to tiggs but know it would simply be deleted
picklesSW wrote:
What I would really like to see is once...just once...one of these feedback threads turn into something concrete. We've been giving you folks feedback for the past year and a half and every time it seems to end up on a shelf somewhere. You never respond, you never improve our profession. The one time you did respond with a change, you gave with one hand (buffs) and then took with the other (the ability to give em while AFK). In the end, this profession is far worse off now than when the game shipped, and I can't think of a single other profession which has declined in this way (except musician, in the same boat we are).
You guys have done a terrible job talking and working with us and our correspondents. Absolutely terrible. I'm hoping you can be a new voice of reason, Tiggs, but after a year and a half, I haven't got much faith left in me.
macksg
Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:29 pm
#700
Issue #1) Mind heal needs a few meters of range added to it, currently its near impossible to heal someone's mind while running due to lag. As this is one of the main points of CM, it really shouldnt be so restrictive.
Issue #2) Extremely hard to find and keep a stock of needed ingredients, even after being CM for 3+ months.
Issue #3) Nearly useless in PVE outside of area heals. Poison and Disease should get a PVE multiplier.
Issue #4) Outside of being a doc/cm, cm isn't really that useful inPVP besides throwing poison/disease. Would be nice if the state heals were moved to CM, or at least shared, as curing states and fire is something a CM should be able to do as well if not instead of a doctor.
One CM can completely run a PVP match, throw a few area spider venom poisons and you wipe out an entire team, but if the opposing team has aDoc with area cures, CM becomes useful only for healing.
Issue #5) No melee or ranged defense associated with being a combat medic. I am thankful for the terrain negotiation, but I end up having to save my entire stomach for damage reduction food. Stats migrated completely to mind, dance buff and doc buffs, and 2 brandy are REQUIRED to go into PVP with 5 on 5 or more, as combat medics are usually targeted first.
I would like to see doctor (and possibly CM if we get changed to be able to heal states) to be able to heal dizzy while knocked down, but thats a whole nother matter.
Currently CM get griefeda lot. 90% of the time after a round of PVP I get tells similar to "Get a real profession n00b!". It's getting bad enough that I almost want to just drop CM and go do TKM, and become yet another defense stacker.
Message Edited by macksg on 10-14-2004 09:31 PM
SioBabble
Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:56 pm
#701
Xanth0592 wrote:
Here's another problem with being a CH...read the responses I received when I advertised about a CH guild on Kauri...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Kauri&message.id=248358
Yeah, I saw that.
The usual twit l337 d00ds who screamed "nerf CH!" for the first six months of release, until the devs caved and gave the crybabies what they wanted.
RankorCity
Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:17 pm
#702
You know what bothers me about the original post by the author?
Its the same one used in every profession....Even "Core Systems"....
I never knew "Core Systems" was a profession...
/shrug