Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Getting to know you and your profession!
SumemerNights
Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:42 pm
#664
I understand Panthu, my mind drifted, but you have to admit that haveing maxed the xp in dancemanytimes over should be enough to get the hang of a change from /floto /flowith out the mistake anamation =P
b. Musicians don't have a fail mechanic like our falling.
string the flosin virtuoso for me some time. I would love to hear what that song is capable of, I can never make it sound even the least bit enjoyable with out a band. guess I consider that a failing. /shrug
Greggthegrmreapr
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:12 pm
#665
Well, first off i would like to say you are a brave soul for posting here... many have been known to bite their monitors trying to attack red names 
but back to business.
First off, my biggest concern for CH is that we were made USELESS in December, and no attempt to fix it has been made. We use more skill points than any combat profession, yet have nothing to show for it.
Second, CH xp should Convert to FS Combat xp. Since that is the only use creatures have (No medic assist, no incap-dragging, no entertainer buff) nothing. they fight, and more often then not, get killed. since that is all they do, it is within reason that the transfer should happen. Let us train pets to do these other things that have been suggested many times. I dropped MCH the other day so i could have more room for Combat XP, and i regret doing it already.
More Storage. <----- (Notice the Period)
so many things could be done to make this Profession, no, this game better, but you seem to be focused on a small few. If they would have just rolled back the December '03 patch, I don't think half the Masters that quit since then would have. But you make the choices... (but remember, we pay your bills :smileywink
Panthu
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:22 pm
#666
Trust me. I get a lot of questions and confused answerswhen I talk like a Dancer to the redtags. They do not understand the things we take for granted everyone should "get."
SumemerNights wrote:
I understand Panthu, my mind drifted, but you have to admit that haveing maxed the xp in dancemanytimes over should be enough to get the hang of a change from /floto /flowith out the mistake anamation =P Yep, I'm sure all attended Dancers know this before they ever hit Master, but Tiggs isn't a Dancer.
b. Musicians don't have a fail mechanic like our falling.
string the flosin virtuoso for me some time. I would love to hear what that song is capable of, I can never make it sound even the least bit enjoyable with out a band. guess I consider that a failing. /shrug
Lol, no, that's more like how a lot of people hate poplock, heh. We actual have a fail roll for falls which make it a "failure mechanic"... Musicians don't have a fail roll. They always succeed. Even if you think it's ugly to the ears.
Ravanne_Esi
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:54 pm
#667
Tiggs, if you bother to read this you will see that the broken dances are on of our biggest concerns. Well, guess what? The wonderful development team just dumped another broken pile of bantha poodoo on us. Where are your heads? We've been complaining about this in the testing forum for a long time, there is no excuse for you not to know that it is broken and we don't want more broken crap. Why do you bother to ask questions when we've seen over and over that it will do no good to waste our time trying to answer you. This has been a problem since the game first went live over 17 months ago, how long before we are going to see any attention given to what is to us a major defect in the game?
Schardour
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:40 pm
#668
In order of importance:
A) WE DON'T KNOW OUR PLACE IN THE GAME! The developers have yet to tell us what roles they expect our profession to fulfill.
B) Various basic functional aspects of our profession are worthless, ranging from buffs (afk'ed and buggy) to broken /register commands.
C) Visual aspects of our profession are sub-par. Flourishes are limited in variety and flexibility. Base dances do not display correctly to those viewing the dancer, even though the flourishes display correctly. Most dances have a large problem with slow drift.
Message Edited by Schardour on 10-13-2004 06:41 PM
Phaedra47
Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:23 pm
#669
Self buffing.
It's not social to be locked in a cantina, but without self-buffing, we are imprisoned. If you go out with your friends, and buff them, you are left without buffs and you are a liability to the group and will die. So you sit in the camp twiddling your thumbs. That's not fun.
Finding another dancer? Yeah... so in order for the entire group to have all buffs, we need 2 dancers and 2 musicians coming along on the hunt. Not likely. To buff everyone's stats you need one doctor. So why do we need four entertainers? This seems ridiculous.
I'm not suggesting that doctors adn dancers are exactly on par and should be treated equally. What I am saying is that the lack of self-buffing is an unnecessary nerf on dancers' functionality. The devs took great pains to give ID's an essential function. The devs should do the same to allow the dancers/musicians to boost their functionality in the field with self-buffing.
Buffing in the field is one thing that a live dancer CAN do better than a buff-bot. We should be supporting it.
As for the argument that cantinas should be the hub of activity: well they haven't been for a long time. This is due to 1) buffbots 2) player cities 3) registration tools broken. So in letting the entertainers go in the field, if they WANT to, the devs would not be yanking them from the social centers at all. Some entertainers will choose to stay in the cantinas. Some will choose to go out in the field. The point is giving choice in the method of socializing, rather than pigeonholing social professions into one venue.
These professions are new, and I don't think the devs understand them. But the players do. The stock answer "it's a social profession" is not good enough when it's coming from a dev who has not played one for any substantial period of time, and does not understand the social professions' playstyle.
Give us self-buffing. Make staying in the cantina a choice, not a mandate.
Thank you, Tiggs, for listening.
It's not social to be locked in a cantina, but without self-buffing, we are imprisoned. If you go out with your friends, and buff them, you are left without buffs and you are a liability to the group and will die. So you sit in the camp twiddling your thumbs. That's not fun.
Finding another dancer? Yeah... so in order for the entire group to have all buffs, we need 2 dancers and 2 musicians coming along on the hunt. Not likely. To buff everyone's stats you need one doctor. So why do we need four entertainers? This seems ridiculous.
I'm not suggesting that doctors adn dancers are exactly on par and should be treated equally. What I am saying is that the lack of self-buffing is an unnecessary nerf on dancers' functionality. The devs took great pains to give ID's an essential function. The devs should do the same to allow the dancers/musicians to boost their functionality in the field with self-buffing.
Buffing in the field is one thing that a live dancer CAN do better than a buff-bot. We should be supporting it.
As for the argument that cantinas should be the hub of activity: well they haven't been for a long time. This is due to 1) buffbots 2) player cities 3) registration tools broken. So in letting the entertainers go in the field, if they WANT to, the devs would not be yanking them from the social centers at all. Some entertainers will choose to stay in the cantinas. Some will choose to go out in the field. The point is giving choice in the method of socializing, rather than pigeonholing social professions into one venue.
These professions are new, and I don't think the devs understand them. But the players do. The stock answer "it's a social profession" is not good enough when it's coming from a dev who has not played one for any substantial period of time, and does not understand the social professions' playstyle.
Give us self-buffing. Make staying in the cantina a choice, not a mandate.
Thank you, Tiggs, for listening.
Shaizann
Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:43 pm
#670
Panthu wrote:
Trust me. I get a lot of questions and confused answers when I talk like a Dancer to the redtags. They do not understand the things we take for granted everyone should "get."
If you get alot of confused answers and questions when explaining our issues then we have a large communication problem. It is my hope that this dialgoue (well mostly monologue from our side) with Tiggs helps to aleviate that confusion. Although, as others have pointed out, most if not all of the issues outlined in this thread have been enumerated countless times in months past. I am, therefore, at a bit of a loss why they still don't 'get' it. Maybe the right hand is unaware what the left is doing inside SOE. And as a result the right people just have not heard our side of things.
All that said, I have hope that this thread (and the upcoming Musician equivilant) finally bring to light our concerns for Tiggs. So, at the next meeting or water cooler chat, she can speak to our issues informatively. However, as is also illustrated by this thread, we're all fairly weary of repeating ourselves and would like some feedback in the form of action on our concerns. Even if the answer is 'no' on some requests at least that is something.
For example, the new entertainer quests were just pushed to the production servers with the broken dance still as it was on the Test Center. In addition, the four-hundred thousand experince price tag is still attached to it. This in spite of a Developer started thread for feedback where it was asked many times to fix it before it gets to us and/or reevaluate the experience cost associated with it. If the developers could not fix the dance and/or felt that the exprience price tag was as it should be it would have been good to have told us.
By telling us, "No, we feel the four-hundred thousand expereince requirment is not unreasoable and will stay" we would have known our concerns were at least heard and considered. Of course, we would much prefer that some of our more reasonable requests get the 'thumbs-up' as it were. However, saying 'no' is saying something.
Message Edited by Shaizann on 10-13-2004 05:47 PM
SuperTrando
Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:51 pm
#671
I think we need to revamp the HAR, get some AP weapons, get a little defense, and please give us some better accuracy. I was master once and I couldn't shoot the broad side of a barn even with my flamer right up against it. Also make the consumable weapons more worth their weight, on Bria it cost more to buy one of those than a good suit of comp sometimes.
SioBabble
Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm
#672
Greggthegrmreapr wrote:
We use more skill points than any combat profession, yet have nothing to show for it.
Gregg, this is simply not true.
Both Commando and Bounty Hunter devote a lot more SP to being a novice. They have to hold two starter proffessions to get to novice.
Now, of course, the melee kids don't live with this particular problem; it takes more SP to be a novice CH than it does to be any melee elite or ranged elite profession novice.
juwell
Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:57 pm
#673
Ok here is my list just to make it fast cause work is calling
1. Combat balance of course. either finish balance or un-nerf us
2. either more room in data or get rid of loss of vitality and deterioration
3. lose the 15 sec delay, pets are weapons we should have access to them quickly
4. plz stop the auto store
5. More high lvl tameables
6. Let us maybe pick one pet to grow and get stronger as we do (like the warders in eq)
7. quests for that "special" pet that not everyone has
Thanks for listening Tiggs.
CyberData4
Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:58 pm
#674
It's hard to name commando specific issues because combat itself is so broken.
1- Flamethrower. It has no AP, which I've always understood. But with armor being what it is and buffs being where they are it makes no sense. At this point a flame 4 commando is jsut as effective with a flamethrower than a Master commando. I suggest a +30 speed boost at master commando.
2- Launcher pistol. It should have its own specials and speed mods. It's the ONLY weapon in the game that a player recieves where they get no mods or specials in their profession that they can use with that weapon.
3-Acid Rifle. What function does it have? It's slower, less accurate and deals less damage than a flamethrower.Yet it's still limited to a 17m limit. Also, it's the only acid weapon in the game that has no armor piercing what so ever. That to me is unacceptable. I see a number of possible fixes to this weapon to give it a role. Either this weapon should be an acid dealing "heavy damage" type weapon...very similar to the flamethrower. Or it should be a faster, less damaging weapon akin to a heavy repeater blaster. With a long range for specials. I don't think it should stack with rifle specials despite the weapons name. All that will do is create a new rifleman/Acid 4 FOTM.
4- Grenades. They are slow, and the distance often incaps the user. These need status effects, such as dizzy, KD, blind, stun. It needs something to legitimize its high cost to produce. As it is now, why should a commando throw a grenade for 1500 dmg when their flamer can do 8000 dmg? Whatn edge does it have
5- Defenses. I have always been of the opinion that a commando should ahve next to no defenses. This is the price we pay for our "extreme offensive damage" but as the game is now, just about any master of any combat profession can outdamage us in a 30 second window.
It's really hard to put a "point" on what is wrong with combat in this game. PvE is far too easy and PvP is far too hard. Unless I drop my template and become a FOTM template, I don't have a shot in hell in winning in PvP. Commandos are suppose to be high damage and low defense. At first, it was this way until uber buffs and armor made our flamethwoer useless. Armor needs to be capped at 40%, buffs need to be scaled down. There needs to be a seperate bar for specials.
Lilianna_Darkstar
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:22 pm
#675
My main two problems:
1. The beginner dances are nicely fleshed out with 8 unique flourishes per dance and a good base dance to them. It seems that the more skilled you get, the less thought out the dances become.
Exotic 1-4 only have two unique flourishes each, plus the shimmy flourish for the other 6 flourishes. So if I want to have the same variety of Popular (for example), I'd have to swap between four different versions of Exotic to get the same number of flourishes. It gets rather boring doing one dance and having only a couple of moves to pick from.
Lyrical and Formal have strangely broken base animations. You drift all across the floor, and the person watching you doesn't see the base dance, they just see your feet jerking back and forth as you drift to the side. The flourishes are beautiful, the base dances are horrible. One of the dances (I believe it is Lyrical) hasgood flourishes for the first few, then the last couple flourishes are completely innpropriate flourishes borrowed from one of the beginning dances.
2. The buffing process is a hassle.
-There is no message that lets you know when the buff is finished, or if it took hold on your target.
-There is no way to track buffingprogess in game, so I have to rely on a stopwatch to estimate when it should be finished.
-The /setperform message is broken (you direct your performance to %T.)
-There is no way to tell if the person that you are buffing is actually watching you.
-If they are listening to a muscian, the buff won't take hold.
-People receiving the buffs don't always understand how to receive a buff, or the difference between grouped vs. non-grouped buffs,so I have to walk them through it.
Einhinder
Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:02 pm
#676
First of all i would like to say thank you for actually takingthe time to do this now on to my issues with dancer
I have been a dancer since week one and I would have to ay that Thee most important issue we face is the plague of afk entertainers. All of our services can and our given out free we no longer have any viable means of supporting ourselves anymore if we want to be pure entertainers not only that this problem has caused entertainers to be ridiculed and disrepected by every other profession in the game.
At best we are ignored at worst we are treated like whores.
Secondly the fact that we are unable to self buff. Unless we want to stoop to the level of using a buffbott we have to hunt dow nanother master dancer to buff us this can be tedious and time consumong master docters can self buff so should dancers and musicions
Fianlly i think that our dances need to be fixed i have seen some good things wich i cant say because of the nda however i believe you too must fix the base dances.