Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: TC Patch 11/26 Bugs and Issues.
Leeno wrote:
All the talk about species huskdemand and DNA refinement is interesting but the real question for me is: Can we make creatures that are significantly better than anything found in the wild at the same cl? I look forward to reading the posts on actual creature stats and our ability to manipulate them, including HAM, damage, speed, resists, specials, armor, cl, etc. If we can't make creatures with customized stats then everything has failed (to methe appearances of my clones don't matter at all). As a master I want to be able to make cl 23, 35, and 70 creatures with mad stats so we can offer CH viable 1, 2, and 3 pet combos. My dream is a cl 70 with 15k HAM, 75% resists, Medium armor, 1000 damage, speed 1.0, heavy poison and knockdown specials. If we don't something close to this I'll be real disappointed.
Actually, no matter what side of the debate you're on about the other issues, this is far the most important. How will CL scale with the power of the creature, and if we cant make something more powerful at the same CL then whats found in the wild how much of an improvement is it really? Colors are nice, special attacks will be better, but if theres not a significant advantage in a BE pet over wild then we're back to square one in many ways.
BTW - might want to check out the ch forums, more then a few of the ultra rare or extinct pets are making a comeback, so there is going to potentially more "competetion" per se for what looks to be a shrinking market...
Whats worriesome is the patch notes that say this:
New Cloning System implemented (Creature level is now fully dependent on final creature stats. Stats are fully dependent on level of DNA samples used. Gnort DNA will create Gnort-like creatures, Rancor DNA-will create Rancor-like creatures, etc.).
Only testing will tell how this is going to work, and lets hope for a character copy system soon because Im not sure theres a lot of master BEthere to begin with, or that have the time to test andgive us all the information about the overall changes that we want.
Tal-N wrote:
Genetacists manipulate dna, they don't accelerate the herditary process they cut right to the chase and manipulate it directly. Well anyway, it's done and it's going live. No more dna refining, it's gone. I look forwards to debating this when a few more people join your side screaming that they don't like needing to sample in the wild. But as long as the scouting profession is needed for bio-engineer and sampling is under the 'Field scientist' titlemyself and othershave a rock solid case for the fact BEs should be out there sampling from wild animals to make clones.
What excuse does your side have for keeping the dna refining process?.. "It's too much hard work to sample wild animals" ..
Good to see your enjoying the fact that class is undergoing a dramatic change of playstyle, and that some of your fellow BEs are left out in the cold, forced into following what you feel should be the only way the class is played. Im a master scout as it stands now, so all in all it doesnt effect me nearly as much you might like, but dont say that the BEs that prefer the refinement method are lazy - thats once again, your vision of them.
The husk is just that, no resistances, no armor, no HAM, no damage, no specials. Completely empty. All of the stats will come from the template which is why the CL rating is mainly determined by the template itself, some species will have a minimum CL rating so you'll never make a CL10 Rancor as it's a perk only a CH should have. The things to remember though is that some husk have issues with movement speed so folks might occasionally want all of the stats of a Rancor in something a bit more agile like a Razor Cat body or a Pugoriss.
OK let me just spell this out for you...
You sample an animal.
You put the samples from the animals into the slots
If you have a sample from a rancor in the mind slot then you will get a mind pool sorta like that of a rancor.
If you put a sample from a gnort into the aggresion slot you get damage like a gnort.
You then assemble the clone and based on the overall stats you get a CL rating.
Next you can experiment on these stats to raise them thus increasing the CL rating.
The end stats for the clone after all that will determine it's final CL rating.
.. now do you understand?
Until we know how the system works I honestly don't know how the clones can end up being a few stats higher than thier CL rating suggests. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that the template is where the CL rating is determined. Thenwhen it goes into a clone the experimentation you get to do on the clone gives you that additional boost without raising the CL higher, thus you do end up with clones being higher in stats than something you'd find in the wild of the same CL rating.
The thing to remember is that we do get to experiment twice on each clone really so there are a number of ways for us to get a bonus to stats without effecting the cl rating.
Tal-N wrote:
OK let me just spell this out for you...
You sample an animal.
You put the samples from the animals into the slots
If you have a sample from a rancor in the mind slot then you will get a mind pool sorta like that of a rancor.
If you put a sample from a gnort into the aggresion slot you get damage like a gnort.
You then assemble the clone and based on the overall stats you get a CL rating.
Next you can experiment on these stats to raise them thus increasing the CL rating.
The end stats for the clone after all that will determine it's final CL rating.
.. now do you understand?
Here, let me spell it out for you: You stated earlierthat the designer notes say that a BE will be able to create stats equal to several levels higher (like it says in the developers notes)? Orfrom the patch notes saying that teh final creatures stats now will dictate CL?So which is it? Do the final stats dictate the CL for everything but a BE made creature? Thats a question that I think many fellow BEs would like to understand.
Thats what no one knows at the moment except the developers, despite how smugly hardcore oldtimer you feel yourself to be. And thats what I was asking about. Then again, I guess you're an expert on a completely new system thatno onehas tested, that apparently isn't working at the moment, and has vague and contradictory statements about it from the developers.
But please feel free to once again blather down at everyone that isnt just passively agreeing with what ever opinion you have at the moment.
Did it ever occour to you that BE pets might get the equivilent of CL discounts? Meaning that while a wild animal with 10k HAM might be CL50 a bio-pet with 10k HAM might be CL45. There are many many ways in which a pet can end up with a higher stats than the wild ones of the same CL rating but the fact is that the statement is perfectly correct... the final stats determine the CL rating but BE pets recieve bonuses over the wild equivilents.
The bonus could occour from experimentation for the template not adding to the CL, or from experimentation on the clone not adding to the CL, or even that we can lower the CL directly while leaving the stats unchanged, or using the CL discounts as mentioned and probably a load more methods which didn't occour to me in the past 20 seconds.
Be the fact reminds, the final stats effect the CL rating but will be different than the standards found in wild animals and their CLs.
Tal-N wrote:
Did it ever occour to you that BE pets might get the equivilent of CL discounts? Meaning that while a wild animal with 10k HAM might be CL50 a bio-pet with 10k HAM might be CL45. There are many many ways in which a pet can end up with a higher stats than the wild ones of the same CL rating but the fact is that the statement is perfectly correct... the final stats determine the CL rating but BE pets recieve bonuses over the wild equivilents.
The bonus could occour from experimentation for the template not adding to the CL, or from experimentation on the clone not adding to the CL, or even that we can lower the CL directly while leaving the stats unchanged, or using the CL discounts as mentioned and probably a load more methods which didn't occour to me in the past 20 seconds.
Be the fact reminds, the final stats effect the CL rating but will be different than the standards found in wild animals and their CLs.
Did it ever occur to you that that you have no proof, evidence, or anythgingat allto back upwhat you're saying? Did it ever occur to you that your guess is at best a wild guess?Did it ever occur to you that the developers statements about this have been contradictory and vague?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe, since you dont know the answer, that perhaps you should wait and see if theres an answer from someone who does know? Guess not 