Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: TC Patch 11/26 Bugs and Issues.
Genetacists manipulate dna, they don't accelerate the herditary process they cut right to the chase and manipulate it directly. Well anyway, it's done and it's going live. No more dna refining, it's gone. I look forwards to debating this when a few more people join your side screaming that they don't like needing to sample in the wild. But as long as the scouting profession is needed for bio-engineer and sampling is under the 'Field scientist' titlemyself and othershave a rock solid case for the fact BEs should be out there sampling from wild animals to make clones.
What excuse does your side have for keeping the dna refining process?.. "It's too much hard work to sample wild animals" ..
Tal-N wrote:
Genetacists manipulate dna, they don't accelerate the herditary process they cut right to the chase and manipulate it directly. Well anyway, it's done and it's going live. No more dna refining, it's gone. I look forwards to debating this when a few more people join your side screaming that they don't like needing to sample in the wild. But as long as the scouting profession is needed for bio-engineer and sampling is under the 'Field scientist' titlemyself and othershave a rock solid case for the fact BEs should be out there sampling from wild animals to make clones.
What excuse does your side have for keeping the dna refining process?.. "It's too much hard work to sample wild animals" ..
I'm glad you're not to arrogant or condescending to people with opposing views Tal
Personally I like the distilling method of dna sampling.A geneticist should be allowed to manipulate the dna in a way that shes sees as being appropriate, not just in the ways you envision. I would say that the title Geneticist and the fact that the other half of our base profession is from medical crafting would be able to support the idea that both methods should be viable. After all, 75% of our skills needed come directly from crafting in the laboratoryin the Bioengineer class, not from fieldwork.
Multiple playstyles in a single class adds to the enjoyment of the class, it doesnt detract. I've sampled quite a bit in the wild, and also have done quite a bit of dna distilling too, both are work yet both can be fun.
Of course, what appalls me the most out of everything is the fact that our long suffering profession is finally getting some desperately needed fixes, and we have fellow bioengineers gloating about how only their prefered playstyle will be valid now. 
We're all in this together, I would rather us all support eachother rather than have us end up calling for nerfs on other players in our own class. 
Of course I'm condecending because none of them have yet to give me even a half decent reason why refining is a good thing. All they say is that it's going to make things too expensives, it's forcing them to take maskscent, it's making the process more time consuming. In the end until they give me a reply which doesn't sound like someone who is trying to find an easy way to make an expensive product then your **edit** right I'm going to be condecending.
There is utterly no fun in taking a tub of meat and flora, some junk dna that you grabbed from outside the city and then make one clone after another and sample them. If you do for some bizaare reason find that to be more enjoyable than being out in the field taking a few risks and hunting down animals then you have a great career as a data inputter for some post office. It's not called grinding for it's entertainment value folks, this isn't skateboarding or rollerblading.
I gotta say I'm with Tal-N on this one. I don't think its nice to be so condescending, but the alternate playstyle is still there, its just going to be for a solely non-ch market, or unique grind pets for ch's.
The killer pets should only be available to those who want to take the risk to get them. And as far as the mask scent thing goes, get yourself explore 1 and make a suite of clothes with 4 +16 mask scent/cammo bonuses. You ARE bio-engineers after all, use your skills. Of course, wookies get jipped here, so might as well get explore 4 and get 2 +17's, thats better than master scout folks, they gave us the means to do this, lets do it!
For you wookiees out there saying: "two? how two?" we can wear bandoliers with our shoulderpads, thats 2
Of course, humanoids get 4, maybe even 5, so explore 2 gets them to/almost to 100.
By the way, humanoid with explore 4 hits the 125 cap with 4 +15 tissues.
Classic Tal-N blanket statements: anyone who doesnt think exactly like him is "wrong", anyone who has issues with a change that he likes is "whining", and if you dont play the game exactly the way he wants you to you're lazy.
I have an issue with a change that fundamentallyalters the way the classcan be played, even though I can work with the changes, I believe this is the thread to post concerns on.
I would also like Tal-N to prove that his idea of the class is the only way is should be played, that anyone who doesnt do exactly his way is lazy, and that anyone that uses the refinement method of cloning isnt having any fun as a BE.
Having two viable ways to approach the cloning issue does not hurt the class, its add options to its players. No one wants the refinement path to be the only one and Tal-Ns prefered way of play to be taken away, but the same is not true for him.
Perhaps even, since to a lesser or greater extent pets are weapons, maybehe should offer a petetion to add "danger and risk taking" to other crafting classes? Perhaps explosive surveying for weaponsmiths, or maybe a wall has a chance of falling over on an architect? I mean, after all, that will make it more fun for them right?
You want proof Tal and so do I, Im waiting for you to provide any to back up your claims, especially about the fun part for me.
The fun part is how when your going up to sample a Rancor whos in amoung his buddies your effectively playing a game of russian roulette. One of thechambers is bound to be loaded and you just have to hope that now isn't the time to take out your life insurance. Now that death stings a bit as well it does give you a certain rush when you know things could go horribly wrong.
In a lab you don't have any of that, you sit down. Craft, sample, craft, sample. I'd absolutely love to know where the rush or fun comes from cause I simply cannot see it. Do i think that people who find it fun to sit there grinding are wrong? **edit** right, people go to work every day to tedious jobs so why come home and do more of the same for recreational purposes. Frankly it would be nice to have multiple approaches to a profession however under the current system there is little reason for people like me to go out into the field to sample and put my neck on the line when someone can sit in a lab with zero risk and accomplish the same.
There is the possibility that you can push the CL rating a bit higher than the dna is itself, thus you could very slowly use generations to produce some exceptional dna but it will take many many generations to do that. However since these people apparently like to grind away endlessly the fact you'll need to be doing it more must be very appealing. Rather than it being CL8 dna producing a CL50 clone, you'll end up with CL8 making a CL12 clone after experimentation. Now that is just a theory based on how they said experiments will push the stats higher but if it does exist then I'll be fine with that since it's a very minor benefit compared to getting the dna directly from the source.
I just hope that the grinders don't moan that things are taking longer now to produce their refined dna or I'm inclined to call them hypocrites since they said they LIKE to grind.
what i want to know is how the hell i am supposed to figure out what cl those **edit** creatures out in the wild ARE so that i can sample the right level for the clones i want to craft. i'll be damned if they think that i'm going to go out and sample every stupid version of the 5 or 6 animal models that they have in the games just so ican figure out which one i have to use to make the proper cl pet in the first place.
and as far as having to go out into the wild to sample dna being realistic or making sense - where are most animal-related tests happening right now? in the friggin laboratories, duh . . . if you want to go run around in your underwear sampling things that's your choice, but it's NOT your choice to tell me how to play the game the way i want. if anything, a crafted clone would be the FIRST place a scientist would go to get a related dna sample. if that does not make sense to you then just don't do it, and stop thinking that your way of playing should be imposed on every other bio-enigineer out there, because we are all not you.
Ok, we don't need to be fighting with ourselves here. Period. There will be enough going on when this all hits live servers for us to deal with. As far as "who's way is right" goes, the devs have repeatedly said that this game is all about risk for reward. There is zero risk in refining DNA by making a level 50 gurrek, or Blurrg. But the reward is that we can make a pretty nice pet with the resulting DNA. If that is gone, then we have to take risk by going out and hunting for DNA in the wild for high level DNA. No right and no wrong, just risk vs. reward.
I just hope that they get all the bugs out of it in test so it works properly when it goes live. I'm truly looking forward to making pets with various abilities, armor levels, and such. If anyone is able to get the coloring part of creature making to work, take some screenshots and post links plz.
Chooloo, Eclipse server
--> If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice <-- RUSH -
btw what does a player have to do to get his character copied to test? Anyone know?
and as far as having to go out into the wild to sample dna being realistic or making sense - where are most animal-related tests happening right now? in the friggin laboratories, duh . . .
Ok, I'm not even going to bother trying to explain why comparing real life with this game isn't going to work as an argument for keeping dna refining. If you can't see why there's no point then your beyond help.
but it's NOT your choice to tell me how to play the game the way i want. if anything, a crafted clone would be the FIRST place a scientist would go to get a related dna sample. if that does not make sense to you then just don't do it, and stop thinking that your way of playing should be imposed on every other bio-enigineer out there, because we are all not you.
Correct it's not my choice. It's the developers choice and they designed the professions to be played a certain way. You don't take a brawler into a fight with an AT-ST, thats them saying you shouldn't play it that way cause it isn't supposed to work. You don't use a chef to heal a players wounds, thats because it's not supposed to work that way. Time and time again and in every game you have a right way and a wrong way to do something. As someone else said this is a risk vs reward system, there is no risk from dna refining so there shouldn't be a reward equal or better to someone else who samples from the wild.
Why does the Ranger/BE combo work so well? Because both professions are designed to be out in the wild dealing with the animals, if a scientist was supposed to be in a lab refining dna constantly then you'd not have the current system coming in where the benefit is lost. The devs are on the side of the field scientists with this and I think it's something the 'lab rats' need to realise. So am I telling you to play a certain way? No, I'm aggreeing totally with the devs because I think thats how it should work as well. They're the one saying that lab rats shouldn't have equal or better chances of cloning pets than field scientists.