Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: TC Patch 11/26 Bugs and Issues.
here is a question that may be important:
Tal's example suggested that the primary attributes will depend on independant DNA samples and the CL will be extrapolated from the agregate of all the DNA samples.
Now, what if I want to make a CL10 creature, and alls I have handy is a bunch of CL60 DNA? Are the attributes treated on a slider where i can give up some of the power of specific attributes to make the aggregate CL fall?
For example, my target animal is a CL10 Kaadu. I only have CL60 DNA. Should I be able to take all attack attributes and all resists down to 0, take out any special attacks, no armor (im sure cl60 DNA has got to have armor) and modify the HAM as much as necessary to get to CL10?
Did it ever occur to you that that you have no proof, evidence, or anythgingat allto back upwhat you're saying?
Oh you mean like this?
"The level of the crafted creature is going to be determined by the actual final stats of the creature. This level will be affected by the skill of the Bio-Engineer and the quality of the DNA used. Master Bio-Engineerswill be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher.."
Now then lets just switch myself into condecending mode... oh wait it's already on. Ok then. Now which part of this says we cant produce a clone of a certain CL rating which is actually superior to a wild critter of the same rating. Oh it must be there part thats says "will be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher.."
So as I said, we know that it can be done but there's so many ways that we cannot know for sure until the system is repaired past the assembly stage. Plus considering how they have said this several times I'm inclined to think it's very likely true and the fact is that from a gameplay point of view for the clones to be desirable they need to have perks over the wild animals.
Tal-N wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that that you have no proof, evidence, or anythgingat allto back upwhat you're saying?
Oh you mean like this?
"The level of the crafted creature is going to be determined by the actual final stats of the creature. This level will be affected by the skill of the Bio-Engineer and the quality of the DNA used. Master Bio-Engineerswill be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher.."
Now then lets just switch myself into condecending mode... oh wait it's already on. Ok then. Now which part of this says we cant produce a clone of a certain CL rating which is actually superior to a wild critter of the same rating. Oh it must be there part thats says "will be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher.."
So as I said, we know that it can be done but there's so many ways that we cannot know for sure until the system is repaired past the assembly stage. Plus considering how they have said this several times I'm inclined to think it's very likely true and the fact is that from a gameplay point of view for the clones to be desirable they need to have perks over the wild animals.
Here, let me break it down so even you can understand Tal, not that I think you want to because you then might have to admit you dont have a clue about the answer, but I hope that you apparently you don't quite get what Im asking for an answerabout from someone who does actually know: There have been two mutually exclusive statements made about the stats relationto CL.You're qouting from a developers statement a week ago, but completely choosing to ignore the TC patch notesfrom a day ortwo agothat directly talked about Bioengineer cloning changes:
Directly from the most recent TC patch notes -
New Cloning System implemented (Creature level is now fully dependent on final creature stats. Stats are fully dependent on level of DNA samples used. Gnort DNA will create Gnort-like creatures, Rancor DNA-will create Rancor-like creatures, etc.).
So there we are: two statements, both official, and mutually exclusive. Personally I hope the developers statement is both true and accurate, but Im not going trust either until we actually either get an official response or someone actually tests the new system.
So please, just go back to trolling the forums, and stop answering questions that you really dont know the answer to.
They're not exclusive, they are the same. It's saying that the final creature level if dependant on the final stats. That doesn't say anything about if they are more powerful than the wild ones or not as you have noted. However if they are more powerful as they have said then the final CL rating for the animal (which can be higher than the wild equivilent) is determined by the final stats. it doesn't say that a CL30 rating always has CL30 stats, if just says the rating is propertional to the stats. I really can say that in any other way for you to understand.
You want to know if the clones are better than the wild ones, the notes from a while ago says yes. The patch notes say nothing at all so why think otherwise?
What about what was said before that we might end up being able to create some more powerful creatures several CL lower.
I would come to think there that this means we should be able to still create something better and still end up with lower CL rating....if not then they are contradicting themselves...
Tal-N wrote:
If the designer notes are correct then any clone we make will have stats equal to ones several CL ratings higher than it. Thus a clone we make will always be better because we effectively 'break' the CL rating system through experimentation to some extent.
From the TC notes:
New Cloning System implemented (Creature level is now fully dependent on final creature stats. Stats are fully dependent on level of DNA samples used. Gnort DNA will create Gnort-like creatures, Rancor DNA-will create Rancor-like creatures, etc.).
Tal-N wrote:
What's worrying about that? Of course the final CL is based on the stats of the critter and the basis for the stats is the dna source. They told us how this system will have adaptive CLs over 2 months ago.
So which is it? Heres where we need some answers also, and I have my serious reservations about the idea that the developers watered down the power of creatures only to allow a dramatically more powerful (of the same CL) ones to be crafted. The CH nerf and creature changes weren't added into the game to make the BE a more viable profession, they were added into the game to lessen the dependance, powerand utilityof fighting creatures in general.
Like are not, the game is trying to move from what people call Pet Wars.
OK I'm gonna say this again. Both can exist if clones and wild animals are on seperate CL scales. Thus the final stats for a clone is indeed related to the CL rating for clones which is actually tweaked to allow them to be higher than the wild CL ratings. Thats about as simply as I can put it. Thus a CL30 clone has the stats of a CL35 wild animal because the two scales are independant of one another.
If you sample a CL30 animal from the wild and make a clone from all CL30 dna then its possible to raise certain stats so that on the clone scale it's CL35 or something. When compared to the wild animals again you might actually see that the stats are eqivilent of something which is CL40 in the wild meaning you have essentially gained 10 levels because of the bio-eng tweaking. (these figures are of course theoretical as the increase might be much smaller)
Thus the dna has a directly effect on the clone and the experimentation raises it higher, the final stats are then fully dependent on the dna which was initially used to provide a basis for the experimentation which pushes things a bit higher. The statement about a gnort giving a gnort like clone is because experimentation will never mean an increase from something like a gnort to something like a Rancor.
OLDDEV:"The level of the crafted creature is going to be determined by the actual final stats of the creature. This level will be affected by the skill of the Bio-Engineer and the quality of the DNA used. Master Bio-Engineers will be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher.."
PATCH:New Cloning System implemented (Creature level is now fully dependent on final creature stats. Stats are fully dependent on level of DNA samples used. Gnort DNA will create Gnort-like creatures, Rancor DNA-will create Rancor-like creatures, etc.).
I fail to see how they are mutually exclusive. (1 can be right but not the other)
Here lets examine them a bit closer.
PATCH:"Creature level is full dependent on final creature stats" (It doesn't take much to add that this can be assumed to be post experimentation as it says FINAL)
vs.
OLDDEV:"The level of the crafted creature is going to be determined by the actual final stats of the creature" (different wording; same result as PATCH statement)
PATCH:"Stats are fully dependent on level of DNA samples used. Gnort DNA will create Gnort-like creatures, Rancor DNA will create Rancor-like creatures, etc.)" (I don't think it takes a mad scientist to figure this one out)
vs
OLDDEV:"This level will be affected by the skill of the Bio-Engineer and the quality of the DNA used." (again wordings different, end result is the same)
PATCH:" " (hehe, nothing else to see here. Move along!!)
OLDDEV:"Master Bio-Engineers will be able to make creatures of a specific level with stats equivalent to a wild creature several levels higher" (Nothing seen here which would invalidate the statement(s) made in PATCH.
Perhaps you can enlighten us on exactly WHY the two statements can't coexist?
Making conclusive statements about How It Works based on preliminary 'how I want it to work' statements by the dev is exceedingly premature and overconfident, IMO. As others counsel, guessing is great, guessing based on previous design statements is even better, but it's still guessing in the absence of real proofs.
And those are still very much absent.
Wow, and I thought I was having a bad hormone day, but then I'm pregnant and overdue.Why are you guys sitting around fighting over things that 1. you don't have any control over, and 2.aren't even implemented yet?
I suppose it could just be the boredom/frustration of waiting. Heh, I could tell you boys a little about that too...
Cool. Best of health and fortune to you and your baby Y. =)
The rest of y'all, could you just zip it and con the TC bio engineers into posting on this board with their actual experiences? Really... complain about the comming changes in a different thread, this one is after all under the subject "TC PATCH BUGS AND ISSUES" ... complaining about what might happen without having used the new system on the TC is just under-educated dribble.
=-Adun