Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Had yet another Chef telling me that 25K is 'a fair price' for crated BSNs...
Okin - 20 cpu for fruits & berries????? what server you on? I know top notch but still only 5 cpu imho assuming you dont need a specific planet for those & to lazy to check on that
Okin_Sin wrote:
I geuss in a week I sell about 20 or so crates of various foods and drinks. All of my foods and drinks are priced between 100k and 125k for a full crate of 25, and I make my own BE tissues for them.
NancyJ I don't really care to much about the stars, I just noticed by far more one stars on the BE forumns then any other forumn I have read. I just wanted to point out that even though I am constantly being one stared and personally attacked, I won't return it. How do you turn off stars anyway?
There is some passive aggressive type that likes to one star a lot on the BE boards. Very annoying, best to ignore it. Poor Tal-N got nothing but one stars. Was rather funny actually.
Meplorium FYI man your sig is cutting off, and I can't read some of it, not sure if its just me or an error. Just thought I would let ya know.
Fruits and Berries are the main components for both Brandy and Canape arguably the most popular chef foods. With the large amount of chefs and high demand for good brandy and canape, they can fetch good prices at times.
NancyJ wrote:
Okin_Sin wrote:
Why aren't these daily **edit** about Chef threads deleted? Is it right for a forumn to constantly as a community get down on another proffesion? Chefs by no means asked to have to completely rely on BE's to make viable food. Try to look at it from the Chefs perspective a bit. In order to make a full run of any foods, they have to spend up to 1 million or more credits on BE additives. Think of it as being a Chef starting out.
I realize that these additives are way to expensive to make, and it doesn't leave a lot of profit margin. If you really want to know the reason why people expect them that cheap, its other BE's who set market standards with predatory pricing. On Bria we have BE's spamming the boards about selling medium 86+ for 15k, and Chefs/BE's selling finished crates of chef products for under 50k. If you really want to point finger and blame, its poor design by SOE, and other BE's undercutting their competition.
I just don't understand why a community would have a differnt thread every day to complain about chef's, it shows very little class. Remeber that SOE did this to boost BE's, trust me when I say no chef wanted to have to rely on you.
Whether you like it or not this is a perfectly valid topic for discussion of the BE forums.
Economic viability is an important concern of all crafting professions, this is not a **edit** about chefs it is a discussion of the additive market and the BE relationship with chefs.
This is something that should be discussed in detail, note that we do not have similar problems with tailors who seem more than happy to share the profits with the BE on enhanced clothes.
So the question is why arent chefs similarly satisfied?
Non enhanced brandy is priced at 50-100k per crate, a BE additive raises the price to 200-250k. A 150k mark up for a crate of BE brandy, so a 'fairer' price, before even considering the escalating meat prices would be nearer 70-75k per crate.
The objection to the situation with chefs is that they are cashing in on OUR hard work.
In a way this is no different to someone coming in to your shop, buying all your stock and selling it at 3 times the price, they are profitting from your time and effort.
We need to discuss ways in which this situation could be altered to be beneficial to both BE and chefs in the hopes that we can enjoy the kind of relationship we have with tailors.
The point this guy is making is a very valid one. There are not sour posts about "I got a tell from a BE and guess what" on the chef's board. It is a lot more possitive and hence more benefical than this board which tends to have much more of a trolling type additude in it.
Comparing Tailor goods and chef goods is a poor comparison. The markets are very different, the use paterns are very different, the effects are very different. They are too different to be compared, so you can't make a point comparing the two. Example I give my tailor all her additives for free. They last a very long time. My enhanced food is consumed at a high rate and hence needs replacement often. Talking about a long duration customize good and a short consumable massed produced good, two different things. I truely hope the tailors are taking home more than 90% of the price of those clothes as they require a lot of sub-components and time to make them in the style and color the customer wants. Mine gets 100% and I just through in a schematic using left over stacks of meat. Very easy for me compared to what she does.
Using brandy as a bench mark is a bad example. I understand it is the highest priced item on a vendor, so it is very attractive to go after that item, however it happens to be one of the cheapestfoods in the game. Example, my Ahrisa goes for 80k a crate. It normally goes for 100k on my server, so no flames on my price needed. It is 3 use, my 200k crate of brandy is 18 use. One would need to spend 420k for the same uses of ahrisa as brandy. The price on brandy is higher than most other crates because of this great value and added cost of trim/casks. The majority of the extra value of brandyis passed onto the customer, not the chef. So using brandy as an example really screws what the values of it's subcompents are, as it is the exception, not the rule, when it comes to food.
The most important thing to do is set a standard of business practice for yourself and stick to your guns. Get a vendor, put your goods on there, and sale them for a price you feel is fair both to you and your customers. If you do that, you will be successful, if you don't, then maybe you need to change things. Don't let others fool you out of your hard work. People will always try to talk you down on price. Why I sale ahrisa for 80k and not 100k like everyone else.
If you good are moving at a rate you are happy with with a price you are happy with, then you are doing something right.
Okin_Sin wrote:
The last few posts have all been very good in my opinion.
Meplorium FYI man your sig is cutting off, and I can't read some of it, not sure if its just me or an error. Just thought I would let ya know.
Fruits and Berries are the main components for both Brandy and Canape arguably the most popular chef foods. With the large amount of chefs and high demand for good brandy and canape, they can fetch good prices at times.
Might be your font settings. I know when I use a computer with bigger fonts most peoples sig gets cut off. Of course mine is a bit longish, I'll need to see what I can do to shorten it up a bit I guess.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:Well, brandy is your #1 seller is it not? And it accounts for a very large portion of your revenue does it not? But fair enough, lets talk about another of your top sellers. Let's talk about Bivoli. Bivoli is actually an excellent comparison because the materials needed are almost identical to what is needed in the supplement that goes into it.
Let's take the pricing of one of the most prolific chefs on Bria.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=141954#M141954
Now let's work backwards once again. 179k/crate. Those take Intelligent Nano nutrients, so let's subtract 35k from that price (which is what I charge for Intelligent nano), leading us to 144k/crate.
Materials needed for a crate of Bivoli:
91x25 = 2275 flora and other machine-harvestables
20x25 = 500 meat
144k / 2775 = 52cpu!!!
If a BE were to use that pricing, a crate of BSN would cost: 104k
Dsabre wrote:
1) only using vasarian brandy as a benchmark for how "greedy" chefs all are.Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 03:32 PM
ok, how about a new rule for discussing pricings...throw out bria and the european servers (still too relatively new for economies to be fully stable)...bria is well messed up, 179k a crate of bivoli...wow, I seem to notice that 100k to 125k is a lot more common so:
125k - 35k for the nano's = 90k
100k - 35k for the nano's = 65k
90k / 2775 = 32.4 cpu (the high end)
65k / 2775 = 23.4 cpu (the low end)
still high, but when considering that the quality of the meat required needs to be higher...and is slightly more restrictive than nutritional additives...its not too completely out of line. for an example of the needed stats:
carnivore meat:
DR controls the filling - docs don't ever wanna have to wait to take another bivoli...so lets say 700 min
FL controls the duration - docs don't really seem to care all that much about this one...but lets say 600 min
PE controls power - even tho a 23 and 25 don't really make a huge difference...docs typically buy out 25's...while 23's don't go anywhere near as fast. 950 min.
OQ adds a little to almost everything - since this affects power as well...900 min.
given how fast some docs can chew through this stuff, and how often dath carnivore meat gets this good...lets say...50 cpu for this.
the flora...well lets go with 5 cpu...even tho its not uncommon to see 10-20 cpu prices on many servers for good flora now.
so:
2275 * 5 = 11375
500 * 50 = 25000
so 36.375k per crate is cost.
but I think its probably closer to this on most servers:
100k a crate, 10 cpu for flora, 50 for the carnivore meat (as you often can't go with the dath carnivore meat)
so 100k - 35k = 65k a crate of bivoli
2275 * 10 = 22750 for the flora
500 * 50 = 25000 for the meat
give 47.750 per crate
then look at what docs charge for using bivoli:
buff without bivoli...8k
buff with bivoli 10k
avg price per buff while using bivoli (at roughly 125k a crate...) 30 cr. or so (must assume no havla...or this number drops waaaaaaaay down)
the only reason I bring this example up is that the relation between docs/chefs is similar to that of BE's/chefs...30 cr per use cost for using bivoli...yet an average of 2k or more per set of 6 vs. the cost of 180 cr per set....its not quite the same...but in the cost vs. increase dept. its similar.
so generally a profit of anywhere from 16k to 54k a crate...vs. the 100k+ of brandy...I won't ever say chefs don't make a profit, cause that's just not true...and shouldn't be expected of any profession...but brandy is by itself in terms of chef profits...nothing else comes close. perhaps bivoli or vercuppti would make for better comparisons as they both require meat...tho bivoli more than vercuppti...as vercuppti needs the 2nd most annoying meat to harvest...insect meat...2nd only to the much hated (and most expensive) avian meat.
And as far as the meat goes, let's be realistic here. You guys are using the exact same meat that we do. Namely the best spawns from Dath carnivore. I know this because that's what the chefs I know use, and we bid against them in the galaxy trade and so forth.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 11:05 PM
I don't think 40k a crate for BSN's is bad, I think that's a fair price (I personally think 25k, 40k, 50k is a fair pricing scheme for good quality additives). and schematics for 100k or so, but the chef has to come to you at your convenience (this is only if you're going to sell schematics) seems fair to me...if the chef makes demands, or wants you to interrupt what you're doing, etc...500k doesn't seem too unfair...depending on what you were doing. if you don't want to sell schematics thats fine too...just avoid the "I don't sell schematics, you have to buy the tissues from me" and then only be able to make a run of 60 tissues kind of stuff...
but also note the bit on the docs...notice how the doc markup just completely overshadows the chef markup...it seems to be a general rule of thumb that markups go up when progressing down the chain.
chef markup...3-4x at the most...doc markup...ummm well lets just leave it as "big" (10x or more if you really wanna know)...cause I don't even want to think about it, and to docs...bivoli is just another "component" for their buffs...gotta have it to sell good buffs.
NancyJ wrote:
What we really need to look at is why generally speaking, tailors are happy to split the profits with a BE to get tissues whereas chefs arent.
What differences are there in the two professions that cause this difference in attitude?
Number of heated threads in the BE forum discussing tailor tissue pricesin the last 3 months: 0
Number of heated threads in the tailor forum discussing tailor tissue prices in the last 3 months: 0
Number of heated threads in the BE forum discussing doctor component prices in pet stimsin the last 3 months: 0
Number of heated threads in the doctor forum discussing doctor component prices in pet stims: no clue, bet you anything it's 0
Number of heated threads in the BE forum discussing chef additives prices in the last 3 months: too many to count
Number of heated threads in the chef forum discussing chef additive prices in the last 3 months: too many to count.
You may draw your own conclusions, I've certainly drawn mine.
From what I have seen from the Chef forum the BE's there have a much better attitude than some of the chefs that have been here.