Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Had yet another Chef telling me that 25K is 'a fair price' for crated BSNs...
PurpleWarrior
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:41 am
#40
Dremvek wrote:
"Even if chefs are making 100 c/u its their right to do so,"
And if BEs want to charge 100k Creds per crate, its our right to do so. The problem is the chefs whining about our pricing. Apparently you believe that the crafters can charge as much as they want and get whatever profit margin they want, as long as you are the crafter, and your components are still cheap.
If your class gets the right to whine to us about our pricing, we certainly get the right to whine about your pricing as well.
I noticed that - did you also see the part where he priced Brandy harvested Flora resources at 20cpu but tells us we can make tissues cheaper by harvesting our own Flora?
Gotta love these trolls.... If they had two brain cells to rub together they'd see how they just dig a big holewith their 'arguments' and then fall in it.
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:47 am
#41
Hey purplewarrior I respect your opinion, and I also respect your right to make it. Notice though how my posts have no personel attacks on you. Just because our opinions don't match doesn't mean we can't be friends does it? I have no problem with any of you BEs, we just don't agree on this particular subject.
The reason I priced the flora at 20c/u is becuase In the BEs arguments they are all averaging the meat at 20-60 c/u, even though I bought hundreds of thousands of carn meat for 10 c/u and its good enough to make me +87 and +117's. Of course I try to harvest as much as my own stuff as possible to lower costs, and I suggest both Chefs and BEs do this. I only stated the high range to stay consistent with the argument. If you notice though I stated from .33-20c/u also.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:52 am
#42
Okin_Sin wrote:
Hey purplewarrior I respect your opinion, and I also respect your right to make it. Notice though how my posts have no personel attacks on you.
No, you're too busy making personal attacks against me, and threatening to offer my customers free schematics. Sheesh, that's a new low even for a chef. I would say that I could do the same to you only worse, but I just wouldn't do that, I'm not predatory in that way (killer 13% tells you all you need to know), and I don't want to hurt other chefs on Bria that are actually good to work with.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 11:52 AM
NancyJ
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:18 pm
#43
Okin_Sin wrote:
Why aren't these daily **edit** about Chef threads deleted? Is it right for a forumn to constantly as a community get down on another proffesion? Chefs by no means asked to have to completely rely on BE's to make viable food. Try to look at it from the Chefs perspective a bit. In order to make a full run of any foods, they have to spend up to 1 million or more credits on BE additives. Think of it as being a Chef starting out.
I realize that these additives are way to expensive to make, and it doesn't leave a lot of profit margin. If you really want to know the reason why people expect them that cheap, its other BE's who set market standards with predatory pricing. On Bria we have BE's spamming the boards about selling medium 86+ for 15k, and Chefs/BE's selling finished crates of chef products for under 50k. If you really want to point finger and blame, its poor design by SOE, and other BE's undercutting their competition.
I just don't understand why a community would have a differnt thread every day to complain about chef's, it shows very little class. Remeber that SOE did this to boost BE's, trust me when I say no chef wanted to have to rely on you.
Whether you like it or not this is a perfectly valid topic for discussion of the BE forums.
Economic viability is an important concern of all crafting professions, this is not a **edit** about chefs it is a discussion of the additive market and the BE relationship with chefs.
This is something that should be discussed in detail, note that we do not have similar problems with tailors who seem more than happy to share the profits with the BE on enhanced clothes.
So the question is why arent chefs similarly satisfied?
Non enhanced brandy is priced at 50-100k per crate, a BE additive raises the price to 200-250k. A 150k mark up for a crate of BE brandy, so a 'fairer' price, before even considering the escalating meat prices would be nearer 70-75k per crate.
The objection to the situation with chefs is that they are cashing in on OUR hard work.
In a way this is no different to someone coming in to your shop, buying all your stock and selling it at 3 times the price, they are profitting from your time and effort.
We need to discuss ways in which this situation could be altered to be beneficial to both BE and chefs in the hopes that we can enjoy the kind of relationship we have with tailors.
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:07 pm
#44
I geuss in a week I sell about 20 or so crates of various foods and drinks. All of my foods and drinks are priced between 100k and 125k for a full crate of 25, and I make my own BE tissues for them.
NancyJ I don't really care to much about the stars, I just noticed by far more one stars on the BE forumns then any other forumn I have read. I just wanted to point out that even though I am constantly being one stared and personally attacked, I won't return it. How do you turn off stars anyway?
NancyJ I don't really care to much about the stars, I just noticed by far more one stars on the BE forumns then any other forumn I have read. I just wanted to point out that even though I am constantly being one stared and personally attacked, I won't return it. How do you turn off stars anyway?
NancyJ
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:19 pm
#45
Its in your profile preferences you can turn off the star ratings completely.
Dremvek
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm
#46
Okin, if you make your own additives, why are you concerned with this thread at all. SWG is a free-market economy. Everyone has the right to price things at whatever they want. If I want to sell BE additives for 10k a crate, that's up to me. If I want to sell them for 100k a crate, that's up to me as well. Ifpeople buy them at 100k a crate, I'm going to make a lot more money than at 10k a crate.
However, what this thread is about is the people that whine and complain that we are overcharging. The simple solution is take your business elsewhere. I don't go into the gas station with my bottle of Coke and start arguing with the cashier, saying I could get that same bottle of Coke for 20 cents cheaper at the gas station across the street. I'd get laughed out of the store.
Why do chefs in particular feel this is any different in SWG? There would be no problems and no threads like this if the chefs weren't acting childish. When I use the term "chef", I'm not referring to the 95% that run a good, honest business, buying goods from BEs at the prices that BEs set, but the 5% that always want it cheaper and to maximize their profits.
The chefs have all of the pricing power that they could want. Their merchandise is useful to 100% of the people in the game. Where BEs get frustrated is we only have 3 groups of people that we can sell 90% of our goods to, those being Chefs, Tailors, and Creature Handlers. It's very frustrating to a BE to be told we're not running our business properly, because our customer base is so much smaller than a chef's. For a BE, by the time we use up the skill points necessary to Master BE and a few trees in merchant to sell our goods, plus the mask scent line in Scout, there isn't much left to give us a combat class powerful enough to solo creatures for meat, especially on the adventure planets. This makes harvesting our own meat extremely difficult for most of us.
However, if all of our goods only required flora and inorganics that could be gathered by us for 0 skill points we would probably be willing to lower our prices. Even with a heavy harvester, most resources come out at less than 1 CPU if on a good concentration. This just isn't the case - we have to have meat, eggs, fish, etc. and those items I don't think are cheap on ANY server.
I think we should perhaps leave this thread as we agree to disagree with the chefs. I don't believe there are hard feelings from most of the BEs towards most of the chefs, but we need an output in which to vent our frustrations when another chef tells us how to run our business.
Ordlander
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:34 pm
#47
I love these price talks. The game is full of greed. I hunt my meat so I pay nothing. I laugh at people who pay even 10cpu on meat let alone the 100 I have seen. If people will pay that price then people will sell that price. I do not care about game money like it seems others do. Then again I in a guild and we are self supporting working sorta a barter system and even help each other get what they looking for. <gasp at the idea>
The devs are putting in money sinks and the players are bitting on them.
Now if I could sell my marterials at what I think is a fare price this is what happens. Somebody buys then sells at marketd up price. So I don't sell. I only market pet heals at same price I have since I been master. I give to guild cheef or tailor whatever they want and I get what I want. I leave the greed to others. But then it my coin paying in real life so it my choice. Your all choice on charging any dang thing people are fool enough to pay for them. 
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:54 pm
#48
Dremvek I don't care how much you sell your tissues for 10 million for each tissue is fine by me. My point in posting here is that im sick of reading posts every day on these boards about how chefs are greedy idiots that ruined the world. THE FACT IS CHEFS EXPECT THESE PRICES CUZ OTHE BE'S SET THEM.
NancyJ
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:01 pm
#49
Okin_Sin wrote:
Dremvek I don't care how much you sell your tissues for 10 million for each tissue is fine by me. My point in posting here is that im sick of reading posts every day on these boards about how chefs are greedy idiots that ruined the world. THE FACT IS CHEFS EXPECT THESE PRICES CUZ OTHE BE'S SET THEM.
If you're sick of reading them then dont. Just dont click on the title of the post that is obviously about something you're sick of reading about.
Participation in this thread is not compulsory.
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:11 pm
#50
Ok NancyJ would you mind pointing out the parts of this post that are constructive, and try to point out ways to remedy this problem? This is nothing but a hate post and the fact that a corespondent ecourages it is very disapointing. Also being a Master Chef and a Master BE I think I have every right to read and post here, seeing that the post covers both. Why don't I see you suggest to anyone else if they don't like reading what I have to say dont? Why do you BE's think you can just bully anyone whodoesn't agree with you away from your forumns? So far I feel this is by far the most obusive and mean hearted community I have seen, and all these one stars and hate posts only encourage me to make sure I constantly post here. NEWSFLASH other people are entitled to their own opinions, even if you dont' like them.
Funny how we have many BE's fighting to sell BSNs at 15k a crate yet you can only think to point the finger to someone else ....
Funny how we have many BE's fighting to sell BSNs at 15k a crate yet you can only think to point the finger to someone else ....
JayceMilam
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:56 pm
#51
Ahhh my daily dose of humor from Okin ... is this guy even for real? I give up ... the fence posts win I won't argue with them anymore or even try to explain anything to them. It is like trying to teach a brick to fly.
Sharknite
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:26 pm
#52
Okay, I don't post often, but this is something that I want to look at. I used to be a Master Chef before the revamp and I'm an aspiring BE right now. I've been every profession in the game for at least 48 hours, started in Beta 3, and have experience that isn't in the game anymore (industrialist). I don't know what to even say to begin on this. I have a chef guildmate offering me his BE tissue business, offering to pay 25k a crate for BSNs and 37.5k a crate for Nanos. This sounded pretty decent when I first waded in considering he uses about 2k a week of each. I still will not complain and I know that he has more money that most do. Now, I understand that most chefs are like this, very courteous and friendly. To those chef's, we salute and respect you. This thread was not intended to address those chefs. This is for the few that say this is overpriced. To those that whine and complain that this is just ridiculous, I offer this out to you. In order to make high quality BSNs (for example and this also goes for Nanos), we need to have 20 units of high quality meat per BSN. By quality meat, I am thinking FL+PE+OQ=2000+. For a factory run, that is 20k of meat. Even at 10 cpu, which most quality meat is sold for quite higher, that is still 200k. They also require 35 organic and 25 flora food. From what I understand, I should use wood for the organic (no FL/PE so it only uses the OQ). I saw some high OQ wood today selling for 5 cpu. The flora is probably in that area as well. So for the factory run, that is 60k flora (60 per BSN x 1000), which is 300k at 5 cpu.. So in total, that is500k simply for resources. There are 40 crates in a factory run, so 25k a crate is 1 mil. Now, that does not include power or maintenance for the factory, but we'll say that is minimal in comparison. Let's say that meat that was 10 cpu is now 20 cpu. I can't tell you how often I've seen meat go for more than that even, but we'll stick with the 20. Now, 20k meat at 20cpu is 400k. That means the profit just went from 500k to 300k. Even if the Chef sold brandy for as low as 100k a crate, he's going to have 4 million from the factory run. Yes, they do make more profit and % mark-up. This is not really the cause of the problems for BEs. If we matched the markup a chef makes on Brandy and Canape (yes, those are the items that chefs make & sell the most according to at least 20 chefs), we would sell BSNs for 50k+ a crate. But we only sell for 25k a crate. I do agree that we are undercutting each other, but I have been a master of every single artisan profession previously and every single one of those professions has gone through this. I know architects went through this drastically when ore survey spots were nerfed to not be in the 90% range anymore. All I can say is this, we should be selling BSNs for at least 25k a crate, possibly higher when the price for resources raises. I personally will be hunting my own meat, but I will still have to buy some as well to keep up with demand of the popular chef. I don't know if there is a solution to the problem of the occasional whiny chef. The only thing I can say is just to tell them to check with other BEs and find out the truth. If we can all agree to sell BSNs at 25k a crate and Nanos at 37.5k a crate, I would think this would decrease alot of the problems. Prices can increase with quality and with resource pricing increase. Most chefs have come to expect this. For those that are taking this personally, this is not addressed to you. BEs are not being greedy, we are simply trying to make a decent living. Chefs should understand that as much as any other profession. If a chef complians to me that I am selling my BSNs for 30k a crate for +87s, I'm going to say "I'm sorry, that's my price." If all BEs would fall into line with this, we will be better off. Again, chefs that don't complain at paying 25-30k a crate for BSNs, or even 45-50k for high quality BSNs, this is not for you at all. This is for the other chefs that only see it as being greedy. If we as BEs can simply keep a cool head and explain things fairly well, we will be better off. Just trying to be constructive.
Nano [BoS]
Moving to just outside Theed, Naboo
Ahazi
Mastered 26 (not holo grinding, just for fun), missing Architect, Merchant, Smuggler, and Squad Leader (TKM and MBE in progress)