Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: The infamous CL10!!!
Kevm
Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:14 am
#53
Zapper_Weisman wrote:
Not really. a CL25 to a CH is made to survive and kill. The fact that these pets are missing the killing aspect, automatically lowers their pet status and use.
Kevm wrote:
Therefore comparing their ability to do their job ('tank'), and ability to survie (effective HAM vs Kinetic), makes themcomparable toapprox awild CL 25.
Message Edited by Kevm on 09-03-2004 08:24 PM
You still don't get it. For a non-CH who either has combat skills, or don't, its the ability of the pet to survive.That is all that matters! You yourself said you use your CL 10 to keep agro off of you and to surive long enough for you to either escape or get into your house. For a combat character the low damage these pets do is ideal since it give the player the max amount of experience for the least amount of risk, because the pet will survive far longer than it should. For these types of pets it is reasonable to compare their ability to survive with pets much higher than CL 10.
I'm sorry if you can't understand this. Regardless its a moot point.. These pets are too powerful and will befixed and then none of these pointess arguments, theories, mathimatical 'proofs' will come up because those pets will finally be fixed to what they were supposed to be.
Message Edited by Kevm on 09-04-2004 01:15 PM
Zapper_Weisman
Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:25 am
#54
I know that they will be fixed, or 'nerfed'. Eventually. But, everyone keeps yelling about unfair advantages, but its not unfair, and in fact the pets are good for the game. Serious CHs are typically CHs and not any other sort of combat skill. Consequently, these pets do not hurt their trade because these pets are not for carrying combat, but aiding in it. Its not hurting anybody that these marksmen use these pets to tank instead of a friend (I know first hand. Before I made one of these pets for my bfs char, I had to be the tank, armored, buffed and beaten on while he leveled rifleman). Its making the advantage easier to get, but not creating it. Its also saving a lot of crafters unneccesaary deaths and item decay. I personally dont want my 250k crafters apron to decay any faster than it has to. Why is all this so horrifying that BEs are actually asking to be nerfed? What unfair advantages has it created? I am not stingy about my pets. Yes, they are expensive. I can only make 4 or 5 in a nine hour DNA and crafting session. I think that makes them worth a little bit. I sell them for 300k. I also give them out to any noob that looks like they need one and give out pet stims and vitality packs and pet food. I think they are great for the game and gameplay. Its fun to have a good pet, and thats something CH and nonCH people should be able to enjoy. CHs still have much better pets, but its nice for a nonCH to have a pet that is actually useful. Having been both, I know how nice it is to have some good BE pets at MCH, but also the value of a useful pet without any CH.
your done.
NancyJ
Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:36 am
#56
If you dont want your crafters apron to decay dont carry it around with you, leave it at home where you need it.
Fixed is not the same as nerfed. A nerf is to take something that deemed to powerful and lessen its power - that is not the same as taking a problem system that can be exploited to create abominations of nature and fixing it so that it works in the way that it was intended.
Fixed is not the same as nerfed. A nerf is to take something that deemed to powerful and lessen its power - that is not the same as taking a problem system that can be exploited to create abominations of nature and fixing it so that it works in the way that it was intended.
GMANHNC
Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:48 am
#57
Get out MY POST EITHER POST THE HARD CAP STATS YOU LIKE OR GO FIGHT FOR YOUR STUPID MONSTER PETS IN YOUR OWN POST... AND STAY OUT MY HARD CAP POST TOO!!
$300K you are an EXPLOIT BOY... GO SEARCH FOR A CREDIT DUPE OR SOMETHING!
$300K you are an EXPLOIT BOY... GO SEARCH FOR A CREDIT DUPE OR SOMETHING!
Novock
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:11 pm
#58
Again guidlines not formula. For example the VD VD HP HP HPcreate DNAis the resulitng CL 10 pet compatible with DEV acceptance for theCL or is it illegal by means of a bug. If they say yes it is legal then atleast we have a guidlineas to what isacceptable and what is not. If this a known bug then we should have someway of knowing if we are creating legal or illegal pets. We need some guidlines. Are you done placing words in my mouth so that you can argue with them or will we see another quote?
Kevm
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:23 pm
#59
Novock wrote:
Again guidlines not formula. For example the VD VD HP HP HPcreate DNAis the resulitng CL 10 pet compatible with DEV acceptance for theCL or is it illegal by means of a bug. If they say yes it is legal then atleast we have a guidlineas to what isacceptable and what is not. If this a known bug then we should have someway of knowing if we are creating legal or illegal pets. We need some guidlines. Are you done placing words in my mouth so that you can argue with them or will we see another quote?
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm asking questions to understand just what you're getting at. If you don't like having people question you the internet isn't the place for you.
If you want 'guidelines' on what the devs think are reasonable CL 10 then thats a question you shuold pose to the only person who can get the answer - NancyJ
Kevm
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:27 pm
#60
Zapper_Weisman wrote:
Kevm wrote:
I don't see what you're trying to get at. Its the calcualtion that determines the CL. The devs have already said they will not give us that formula. So the only way we will know what they ought' to be is when the system is fixed and we see what thay are.
Why not try to figure out the formula? Just bc the devs wont tell us doesnt mean we cant find out.
Because its been tried by a bunch of people, including some of those who wrote the BE Guide. They couldn't get a handle on it. Add that to the fact the devs have stated they will not show the CL during experimentation because they wont put the code on the client side, and is too complex to be done everytime something is changed during experimentation and would slow things down, leads me to believe its a pretty 'black box' method.
But then again, we don't need to know the formula, we just need it fixed.
Novock
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:41 pm
#61
Why does every statement you make end with somesmug remarkor attack against me? Do I pose some type of unseen danger to you that you feel you must attack me? Why can't you simply discuss the issues without feeling like there is a territory that everyone isstepping on?As for addressing the guidlines I'm simply stating where any dev can see my position as to what would help the arguments and the confusion. NancyJ can take my opinions if she so feels fit and send them with her backing on to the DEVs thats is her decision. If she disagrees that isfine too.I don't feel that I need your acceptance to place a post or a reply to post on this forum and I believe my comments to be relevant to the discussion at hand. Simply because you don't agree with my thoughts is not a logical claim that I should not speak
Kevm
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:56 pm
#62
Hmm I see 3 replies to you and only the last post had any kind of 'smug' comment. I'm sorry you see me as 'attacking you' in all my questions to you. Ihave never claimed you shouldn't post, all I have done was respond and in the process tried to figure out what you were getting at, but you seem to take personally any questions posted to you.
Novock wrote:
Why does every statement you make end with somesmug remarkor attack against me? Do I pose some type of unseen danger to you that you feel you must attack me? Why can't you simply discuss the issues without feeling like there is a territory that everyone isstepping on?As for addressing the guidlines I'm simply stating where any dev can see my position as to what would help the arguments and the confusion. NancyJ can take my opinions if she so feels fit and send them with her backing on to the DEVs thats is her decision. If she disagrees that isfine too.I don't feel that I need your acceptance to place a post or a reply to post on this forum and I believe my comments to be relevant to the discussion at hand. Simply because you don't agree with my thoughts is not a logical claim that I should not speak
I now know what you were talking about so rest assured I probably wont feel a need to respond after this. It should give your sensitivities a break (that's not an 'attack', its sarcasm btw)
NancyJ
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:16 pm
#63
Zapper_Weisman wrote:
Kevm wrote:
I don't see what you're trying to get at. Its the calcualtion that determines the CL. The devs have already said they will not give us that formula. So the only way we will know what they ought' to be is when the system is fixed and we see what thay are.Why not try to figure out the formula? Just bc the devs wont tell us doesnt mean we cant find out.
This community attracts some of the most intelligent and scientifically minded people in the game, this system has been in the game for 9 months (iirc) and nobody has been able to figure it out.
We have formulas for everything except CL, these formulas werent given to us, no doubt blood sweat and tears went into figuring out what was going on when the new cloning system was implemented.
People have made databases of every single DNA template they've ever made and analysed the results with powerful computer programs and still we're in the dark on this one.
The only conclusion that we've come to is that the formula isnt linear and theres far too much fuzzy maths going on to figure this one out - which is also why the system is so hard to debug.
To date no-one has even been able to come up with a recipe that reliably gets pulled up as invalid.
NancyJ
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:33 pm
#64
Novock, chill man, dont be so defensive, if you think what Kevm posted was attacking then you're in the wrong forum, you may have noticed things can get a little heated here 
As for asking the devs what they think the stats of a CL10 pet should be, thats completely against the nature of the profession. The freedom we have with our pets is unrivalled in this game's crafting scope. Do we really want to lose that and go back to the cookie-cutter pets we had before?
WAY back in the day, when talth was still corespondant and I was a mere BE n00b with big ideas, the devs hinted to talth that the current cl10 du jour of 2k HAM 40% Kinetic and (I think) 50 damage, was more powerful than they intended, but thats really nothing new, armour, weapons and meds are more powerful than the devs intended
IMo they will never give us an outright cl10 limit because, thats really not a single answer to that question, the purpose of BE's is to manipulate DNA to remove undesirable traits and enhance the desirables ones to make a custom pet more 'powerful' than a wild one, simply because of the specialisation.
So if the devs said you can have 1.5K HAM 20% to a resist and 5 dps then we lose all freedom and power with our pets.
As for asking the devs what they think the stats of a CL10 pet should be, thats completely against the nature of the profession. The freedom we have with our pets is unrivalled in this game's crafting scope. Do we really want to lose that and go back to the cookie-cutter pets we had before?
WAY back in the day, when talth was still corespondant and I was a mere BE n00b with big ideas, the devs hinted to talth that the current cl10 du jour of 2k HAM 40% Kinetic and (I think) 50 damage, was more powerful than they intended, but thats really nothing new, armour, weapons and meds are more powerful than the devs intended
IMo they will never give us an outright cl10 limit because, thats really not a single answer to that question, the purpose of BE's is to manipulate DNA to remove undesirable traits and enhance the desirables ones to make a custom pet more 'powerful' than a wild one, simply because of the specialisation.
So if the devs said you can have 1.5K HAM 20% to a resist and 5 dps then we lose all freedom and power with our pets.
Novock
Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:29 pm
#65
Very dissappointing I thought more highly of you then that NancyJ. Never asked for hard numbers just some guidelines. An example of an acceptable animal would go a long way. Obviously you didn't read my original post for that flexibility was exactly the issue that I didn't want to see removed from the profession as is my fear for the argument of hard caps. Don't understand the remark for me to chill, I have never been upset simply asked why when disagreed with you must be cut down on this forum. As I hoped thatthe voice of this forum, the correspondent, you would be more open to allowing an open and free exchange of ideas rather than promoting the cutting down of those who are in the minority. i secondly appeal to the guidlines to which SOE put in place for this forum to make sure everyone had a place:
Rule 2: Be Friendly and Courteous
Everyone wants to have a positive experience while on the Forums - please make sure that you contribute to it. Please do not post anything harassing, threatening, abusive, lewd, or inflammatory. Flaming people, products, or organizations is never acceptable. Neither is trolling. Instead, be friendly, helpful, and supportive.
Everyone wants to have a positive experience while on the Forums - please make sure that you contribute to it. Please do not post anything harassing, threatening, abusive, lewd, or inflammatory. Flaming people, products, or organizations is never acceptable. Neither is trolling. Instead, be friendly, helpful, and supportive.
SOE Community Guidlines
1. To ensure every user's rights are respected, Sony Online Entertainment will not tolerate the following:
1.1 Harassment of another member, including threats, unwanted contacts via chat or message boards.
1.2 Participation in abusive, defamatory, threatening, or offensive language or behavior.
1.3 Participation in bigoted, hateful, or racially offensive statements.
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However I don't incite to anger very easily I deal with many people on a day to day, being a minister its hard tonot deal with many people from many different places in lifebut I feel that every person ought to be respectful as it seems SOE desires as well.