Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Armour Macros
First off, both your arguments have one very serious fundamental flaw (Seiryuu and Obi-Zem-Kenobi):
This change is **NOT** a "combat rebalance" for for 99% of the player base. It is a balance for JEDI.
It is a change that is being made because of the Jedi revamp. If you choose not to want to believe me, feel free to read NancyJ post. Feel free to check out the Test Center posts about the issue. Do some research.
The combat re-balance is a much needed publish that I very much look forward to along with many others. This is not that time folks.
This change is a nerf outside the combat rebalance that is going to hit BEs more then most due to our unique role as crafters.
As far as what risks we do have:
The "balance" in DNA sampling, at this point, is not death but time and skill. I'll say it again. TIME and SKILL. Add that with the 3 risks (I stated above) we face ATM **AND** with the fact that our creatures are nearly useless.
Our creatures are a joke in PvP and are easily out done by any other elite profession in PvE. Now the combat rebalance **may** change that. But until then the system is already working under a risk system that is GREATER then the reward.
I would ask those who see this as a rebalance to please stop. Thinkabout the context of this change andevaluate the "risk vs reward" that we currently have.
Vezek 
As for Jedi robes - they arent in game yet and when they do come in they will be crap compared to composite because all armour is going to be rebalanced, when that happens the robes will be on par with Composite but before the changes go in their will be a significant advtange to be gained by wearing composite indstead of jedi robes.
The point of this discussion is not whether or not we agree with the new delay or the reasons for its implementation (fwiw there is also a delay on weapons now) but to discuss how it affects us as a profession. My job is to represent the feelings of the comunity and to make you aware of any potential changes to the game that could negatively (or positively) affect our profession so that I can make the devs aware of the issues before the game hits live.
Obviously there are reasons for this change and it is doubtful that the delay will be taken out just because it could possibly make things even more difficult for us but if we dont say anything then we're never going to get anywhere.
We have to make them aware when they introduce things that make our job more difficult - if they are aware of the difficulties then we are more likely to get concessions elsewhere to balance the profession.
Remember how it was an "exploit" for a Creature Handler to pull out a pet during combat. Our so-called poke-maneuver? Guess what? It logically follows that weapons and armor fall into the same pattern.
You now have to plan ahead. You can't switch weapons at-will to get the best shot off, you instead have to decide if it is really worth that time to change. Armor cannot be removed to spam a special without having the HAMs hit as hard. It prevents surprise newbie-to-master-BH transformations and a whole host of other situations.
It means you have to think and use tactics. Exactly how the combat system was originally intended. It is simply a part of the combat balance which is spanning several publishes.
Seiryuu wrote:
The armor and weapon changes are most certainly NOT for Jedi only.
Remember how it was an "exploit" for a Creature Handler to pull out a pet during combat. Our so-called poke-maneuver? Guess what? It logically follows that weapons and armor fall into the same pattern.
You now have to plan ahead. You can't switch weapons at-will to get the best shot off, you instead have to decide if it is really worth that time to change. Armor cannot be removed to spam a special without having the HAMs hit as hard. It prevents surprise newbie-to-master-BH transformations and a whole host of other situations.
It means you have to think and use tactics. Exactly how the combat system was originally intended. It is simply a part of the combat balance which is spanning several publishes.
I stated the **fact** that this change has been made **due** to the Jedi publish. It is **not** a mini combat rebalance "fix" that just happened to sneak in with the Jedi revamp.
There cannot be any argument with the above. It is what it is sir. Although you are free to hold whatever opinion you like
If you stood back for a moment and thought about ityou would realize that, at this time, armor delay will have little effect for 99% of all players who will now simply leave their armor on all the time. So, in other words, it "balances" nothing for most players.
The only profession it will have a balancing effect on, at this time, is Jedi. BE will be effected but I would bet RL money the DEVs were **not** concerned over BE using the armor macro for DNA sampling.
Simply put, there is no reason to macro armor for most people other then cosmetic reasons. Comp is the mother of all armor and, with a buff, you can spam your specials in it with little to no HAM drain.
Weapon switching is in a similar boat but I'm not going to get into that
I will simply say that there are far more pressing "balance" issues in combat then either of the two above. The only pressing reason for this to be pushed at this point is the Jedi revamp.
Anyhow, this all matters not. I stated how this would effect me as a MBE. That, afterall, was Nancy's intention with this thread.
I'm only indulging myself here because it is obvious that you did not understandthe intent of such post. Instead I received two replies pointing out a very obvious concept that I can assure you did not escape my mind; risks/rewards. I already stated my feeling on that subject in my above post
I just run away and if I die then so what? Head back and try again.
I carry nothing that can decay with me when sampling so no worry about insurance costs. It's not even that annoying becasue my sampling trips consist of me running around just seeing what turns up. If i find a nice spot i will set a wp and just head back.
There is a difference between making this change now because of the Jedi and making the change because of the Jedi. Your posts came across as the latter. If all you are saying is the former, then I agree it influenced the decision, but not to 99% of the reason.
I would argue it is better this way because you have time to adjust to it. In a few months you will have to deal with delays and reduced armor effectiveness. If you had both at once it would hurt more and make you even more upset. In that sense, this is very much for everyone, not the Jedi.
Seiryuu wrote:
There is a difference between making this change now because of the Jedi and making the change because of the Jedi. Your posts came across as the latter. If all you are saying is the former, then I agree it influenced the decision, but not to 99% of the reason.
I would argue it is better this way because you have time to adjust to it. In a few months you will have to deal with delays and reduced armor effectiveness. If you had both at once it would hurt more and make you even more upset. In that sense, this is very much for everyone, not the Jedi.
To 100% clarify my position for you and any others who did not understand it, the armor macro change has been made now because of the Jedi publish. Not 99% but 100%.
This upcoming publish, and the next, are Jedi publishes not combat rebalance publishes.
As I already stated, that only makes sense as, at this time, the only real pure combat profession that will be"balanced" is Jedi.
As to weather it would have happened anyways in the future, I would say it likely would have... It really depends on what the DEVs do with armor resistances, the HAM system, doc buffs, and weapon balances. Without major changes to these the armor and weapon macros **are** a non issue.
I also want to make clear that I am not against rebalancing combat. I look forward to it. I will likely drop MBE after publish 11 and do some PvP for a change of pace. The major reason I do **not** PvP atm is because of all the unbalances that exist atm.
Of all these unbalances, the armor/weapon macro is of **no** real significances to me. As the system is set up now it offers a very limited advantage. I have not personally seen anyone macro their armor in PvP and only a few BH and commando cycle their weapons... But both professions suck compared to the Riflemen/CM template (among several others)so it **isnt** an issue.
So, when a Jedi publish comes into the game that includes a combat change that has **no** real balance to anyone but Jedi yet adds an inconvenience to me I would say it has the tendency to erk me a little
Lastly, I will state that I despise time timers. So it is double jeopardy for me. Sometimes they are a necessary evil... though I prefer that they be avoided whenever humanly possible.
I do not know about your time Seiryuu, but I place a premium on mine. IMHO, the accumulation of time sinks we already have waste too much time as is. I'm not eager to add to it.
Everyone except the other Creature Handlers told us to piss-off when we said they were bad. I did my best to explain why they weren't fair and they were an unnecessary time sink. Our replies of, "you would not be for this if it happened to weapons and armor, too" were ignored or slammed.
Well, no one came to our defense. Now it is hitting the other systems. Had people stuck up for us instead would it be coming to this? I don't know. I do know we have been told repeatedly (see the last 19 Questions for the most recent), they are not going away. I will take that to mean they won't for armor or weapons either.
I don't like them in the least, but as long as I have my timer I can at least feel balanced with everyone else having one as well. The devs seem to want this for everyone so I really do not think Jedi are the overriding influence in the decision other than perhaps the timing.
Considering they are touching up LoS, I would say that the balance has begun. Some things are simply the foundation, are not dependent upon other systems or are simple changes so they are doing them now. If they had the man-power, I'm sure we would see more trickling out.
Btw, armor and weapons are going to be massively reduced. The CH's have realized this for a long time, but recent announcements from Fan Fest have confirmed this. No one knows how much, but look to the new lightsaber stats for a guess, because they have been toned down quite a bit and they are going to remain the top-end weapons once this is all done.
Seiryuu wrote:
Had people stuck up for us instead would it be coming to this?
Yes.
The changes are to prevent exploits with the new Jedi system. In the new system, Jedi cannot wear armour and use force powers at the same time. Without the delay there is nothing to stops you switching in and out of armour to use force powers as a Jedi hybrid.
It is not a NERF and it has nothing to do with pet timers. It has been put in to prevent an unintended play style.
Message Edited by NancyJ on 06-07-2004 11:13 AM
Talthazar wrote:Even if this is the official stance, (Is it Nancy? I've been looking, but haven't found anDev statement yet) you can be certain that Jedi arenot the only reason. Macroing armor off and on to perform low cost specials or abilities has been going on for some time now and certainly is not limited to Jedi. Maybe the new Jedi system is the reason for it going in, but it is not the only issue this delay addresses.
OK to clarify - the reason this change is coming in *now* rather than the combat balance is because of the changes to the Jedi system.
Yes this affects everyone, and yes non jedi characters can use macros to take armour off to do specials BUT it is an issue that has increased priority because of the potential for Jedi hybrids to exploit the situation to gain the benefits of force powers AND armour.