Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: 4th Gen non ch pet I just made!!!
Tal-N wrote:
Ok, fine be stubborn again, this happened the last 2 times and when people said they were overpowered we were right cause it got changed. If you folks are going to be so blind as to not learn from history then you're doomed to repeat it over.. and over.. and over. I'm not going to waste my breath this time.
Don't go away mad....
Look I realize you're the old man of the sea around here. You don't have to go smuglyback to your ivory beta tower and sulk about this. I can't believe this will happen. Not "won't", "can't." My business is non-ch pets, and if I put my business on indefinite hold for a nerf that "may" be coming, I might as well just not even play.
I don't see a problem with this the way it is. If I have 10 glasses of water, each 1/10th full of water, and I want all my water in one glass, I can pour them into that one glass and haveone full glass and nine empty glasses. Same amount of water, just all together. Seems like the same thing to me.
Besides, if we're wrong, you can come down and lord it over us with an "I told you so, next time you'll listen to me," etc. Won't that be fun?
We have used all the theories suggested in this forum to get to this point. Lowering Damage, lowering Mind, breeding in vulns, multi-generatinal pets. We haven't used any known or supposed bugged DNA. We are not mass producing these and selling them to the masses for ungodly amounts of credits. So I ask again.. WHERE are we exploitng? If you aren't going to answer that question.. then please.. DON'T waste your breath.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Prasthaa Agnii, Naboo
Tarquinas
Madry wrote:
Tal-N wrote:
Ok, fine be stubborn again, this happened the last 2 times and when people said they were overpowered we were right cause it got changed. If you folks are going to be so blind as to not learn from history then you're doomed to repeat it over.. and over.. and over. I'm not going to waste my breath this time.
Don't go away mad....
Look I realize you're the old man of the sea around here. You don't have to go smuglyback to your ivory beta tower and sulk about this. I can't believe this will happen. Not "won't", "can't." My business is non-ch pets, and if I put my business on indefinite hold for a nerf that "may" be coming, I might as well just not even play.
I don't see a problem with this the way it is. If I have 10 glasses of water, each 1/10th full of water, and I want all my water in one glass, I can pour them into that one glass and haveone full glass and nine empty glasses. Same amount of water, just all together. Seems like the same thing to me.
Besides, if we're wrong, you can come down and lord it over us with an "I told you so, next time you'll listen to me," etc. Won't that be fun?
Ok, but I think what Tal-N is saying, is that pouring all that water into one glass is fine, but if by chance that ONE glass--let's say "magically"--doubled the amount of water, without increasing in size--then, you could say you found something "odd"...hmmm, lets see, 3 /10 Tap water, 3 /10 Spring water, and 4/10 Distilled water all equals 10/10 glass of water--but if I change 4 /10 distilled into 3 /10 distilled and 1 /10 mineral, then I get 20 /10 glass of water?...hmmm, that be odd!LOL
You see, it's not your process he's questioning, it's the results. The results are more than they should be, at least we think they are, andit's likely the devs will agree...not your fault.
Made: 4 1st Gen Pets
Required: 20 New DNA Samples
Good Pets Made: 4 Template pets.
Critical Failures: 0
Samples Retrieved: 19
Total Loss: 1 DNA Sample
Made: 9 2nd Gen
Required: 36 New DNA Samples, 9 1st Gen Samples
Good Pets Made: 4 (CL22-25 60% Kinetic AR1) 3 Broken Pets
Critical Failures: 2 on DNA Combine
Samples Retrieved: 21 Samples
Total Loss: 24 DNA Samples
Made: 4 3rd Gen
Required: 20 2nd Gen Samples
Good Pets Made: 3 (Not good enough to sell)
Critical Failures: 1 on DNA Combine
Samples Retrieved: 5
Total Loss: 15 DNA Samples
Made: 1 4th Gen
Required: 5 3rd Gen Samples
Good Pets Made: 1 (CL10, 60% Kinetic, 5955,2688,2652,[email protected]/.23 Stun/Dizzy/Ranged)
Critical Failures: 0
Samples Retrieved: None (Didnt ReSample)
Total Loss: 0
Overall this one pet used 56 new DNA Samples. I have 10 1st Gen and 1 2nd Gen sample remaining. Nowhere near cost effective to make. I only discovered this because I was grinding up the pets I considered broken. Ie. Only 1 special, 2 of the same special, abnormally low stat in the ham.
This took about 5 hours start to finish. Logging be the most time intensive part.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Prasthaa Agnii, Naboo
Tarquinas
Health 9132
Action 7642
Mind 6583
Kin 58%
Rest Vuln
Damage 170-180
Knockdown
Dizzy strike
Health 8989
Action 4034
Mind 4447
Kin 58%
Rest Vuln
Damage 80-90
Dizzy Strike
Ranged
Message Edited by ImdaREELjedi on 02-17-2004 01:14 PM
Problem with your response is, this isn't credit duping. This isn't creating something from nothing. This is the OBJECT of playing BE. To make the best creatures the system allows. I agree that the easiest way to stop this would be to prevent the sampling of pets. But I don't advocate it, and if the devs did, then I think we would have seen this as a hotfix by now.
This isn't comparible to taking something that is not yours through well thought out theft. Your analogy does not hold up. The man is working within the system, putting forth more time and effort, in order to create a better product. Weaponsmiths who go to the farthest planets to mine the highest quality minerals create better weapons because of the time and effort put in. Same with most crafting.
My Chef got some really good BE tissues that made her Vasarian Brandy better than a muon. Is that overpowered food? Is the BE tissue an exploit similar to robbing a bank, simply because the BE took the time and effort to find the best resources and put them together?
What I said, or intended to convey, is that I disagree that the work this individual put into his creature should be considered invalid because of a perceived community standard. I feel that as BEs, we should be able to create Monsters that are missing key aspects that allow them to be handled at lower levels. Frankenstein, very strong, very aggressive, not so smart.... I would gladly accept tweaks that invalidated fortitude or whatever in the class calculation if it is deemed by the devs that we can crank them to a too powerful height. Thats how these games work.
But at the same point, we don't get new Schematics like RIS. We don't have harvestors to stockpile good DNA. Everything we do, we do by hand and have to experiment and create on our own. Our role is to create the best things we can create as allowed by the system without using exploits. Sampling pets is not an exploit, it is a tool we have been given. If you prefer to make mediochre pets in 1 or 2 generations and your customers are happy with the medium grade pets you provide then fine. I for 1 have always served the upper crust who is looking for the best, and I put effort into givng them the best. I think it makes sense for someone who puts in the effort to play the part to be able to create a pet of much better quality than some grinder who came in and read some recipes off the board before dropping it to go grind CH or something....
Now if you'll please go back an reread the thread you will this is not a debate on whether they should or should not be allowed, its over the term 'exploit'. The time I spent documenting was to help whoever the hell wants to listen on the development team to either A) Fix it right or B) Say its ok.
I have gone back and put every stat set leading to the CL10 in the previous post through the formulas given. EVERY ONE falls within predicted parameters (with the exception of 2nd generation being 5 points under in fort/hard/dex)
1,3,and 4th generations all fall within 1 point of predicted stats useing the formulas this forum has uncovered. Are you with me so far? Do I need to slow down any for you?? Where have I done anything different that a single BE hasnt done? Maybe every pet you make is an exploit also? Yes.. that must be it.. lets run your numbers through the formulas.. and it they fall within the same parameters then they must be exploits also.
You can all sit there and scream nerf, exploiter, cheat or whatever gets your rocks off. The fact of the matter is I've documented it and offered the data for analysis which is a bit more than all the whining and finger pointing you're doing.
In the mean time.. I'll continue making the best pets I possibly can. If and when they fix it, I'll start over from scratch and find new ways to make the best pets possible. Rinse and repeat. Sorry if my pushing the profession to its limits is exploiting. Ban me and let the uberdudes shouting leet pets 1 mill ceditz in the center of the starport take over.
I understand why people are saying this pet should be invalid based on HAM and resists, but the problem with that logic is that it doesn't take any of the other stats into account. We know a really low fortitude helps lower the class, but what does it do to the final beast? Does the beast decay faster? Does it do anything? If it does decay faster, then the devs have allowed us to trade class for creature durability. If it should only matter in the creation of armor, then the devs need to put parameters in for adding classes if it is above 500 and not doing anything if it is below 500. This is just oneexample.
Yes, this creature does not fall in line with the highestexpected results,and sodo many other multigenerational pets. But then again, either do Krayt guns or Bile Poisons. Both take extensive time and resources to gain. Or are supposed to. There is no reason a 5th generation pet, that has made it through all of the possible crit fails, bred down the right traits, and combined in all the right places can't be an uber pet for its level. That is what cloning is about.
If this used bugged DNA, then it should be nerfed. If it was created in 1st or 2nd gen, even that is too easy for the stats and it should be nerfed. But this person put in hours tracking down a minimum of 25 specific DNA samples, probably more like 35 or 40, made it passed the crit fails, and worked the undefined/unimportant stats down in the process. This is much more difficult than farming Krayt tissues for an uber gun, and much less open to mass production. As a result, we should have a very high end, very expensive, much more useful "weapon" for a player to buy. Seems almost a quest reward to me and as long as it is that difficult, not uncalled for at all.