Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: 4th Gen non ch pet I just made!!!
BM-Lion
Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:41 am
#27
Hold on.. you're saying making a generational Non-CH pet is an exploit? What are we supposed to do with 1st gen clones that dont come out to our satification? Destroy them and not recover anything from them?
Any pet that doesnt meet my standards goes in the recycle bag to be resampled later. IE missing a special, 1 CL too high for a trio and too low for a decent pair, ect.
I've made 5 of these CL10 8K/5K/3K ish pets with 60% kientic and vuln to all else with damaged ranges anywhere from 30-120 from resampled clones to at LEAST 4th genereation. How is this an exploit?
You want a recipe for them? Take several of ANY CL25ish pet with 60% kinetic and vuln to all else and resample them for as much as many samples you can get. Recombine into as many pets as you can get. Resample them all again and recombine again. Chance are.. one ifnot more than one of the 4th gen pets will be CL10 with 7-9K health, 4-6K action and 2-4K mind. And if you are really careful about placement of the dna for speicals.. both specials and ranged. I'll send you an EXACT recipe to how I make a CL25ish pet. I'd post it here.. but I'd hate to be the one to spread an 'exploit'. You can respond with what part of it EXACTLY is the exploit. Until then I'll ask you to refrain from calling it an exploit until a dev says 'This is what we consider a legal non-ch pet'. The game has been patched and they have fixed the buggy dna supposedly.
I consider it our job to push the envelope of what is possible and Give the CHs back some of the power they've lost to nerf herders, and to the non-ch as well who would like to be able to solo more than a gnort.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
Any pet that doesnt meet my standards goes in the recycle bag to be resampled later. IE missing a special, 1 CL too high for a trio and too low for a decent pair, ect.
I've made 5 of these CL10 8K/5K/3K ish pets with 60% kientic and vuln to all else with damaged ranges anywhere from 30-120 from resampled clones to at LEAST 4th genereation. How is this an exploit?
You want a recipe for them? Take several of ANY CL25ish pet with 60% kinetic and vuln to all else and resample them for as much as many samples you can get. Recombine into as many pets as you can get. Resample them all again and recombine again. Chance are.. one ifnot more than one of the 4th gen pets will be CL10 with 7-9K health, 4-6K action and 2-4K mind. And if you are really careful about placement of the dna for speicals.. both specials and ranged. I'll send you an EXACT recipe to how I make a CL25ish pet. I'd post it here.. but I'd hate to be the one to spread an 'exploit'. You can respond with what part of it EXACTLY is the exploit. Until then I'll ask you to refrain from calling it an exploit until a dev says 'This is what we consider a legal non-ch pet'. The game has been patched and they have fixed the buggy dna supposedly.
I consider it our job to push the envelope of what is possible and Give the CHs back some of the power they've lost to nerf herders, and to the non-ch as well who would like to be able to solo more than a gnort.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
Degaulle
Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:46 am
#28
I have to aggree. Generation cloning is not an exploit. It is discussed openly. If it was it would have been stopped long ago.
Ralfire
Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:04 am
#29
How can you say that a pet that does 30-40 damage is to powerful. The only thing you are focused on is the HAM which really just determens how long it can stay in a fight. the damage is what should determen the CL not the HAM. HAM DOESN'T MATTER ! IMHO
Madry
Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:43 pm
#30
My business is based on the hard work I and my partner have done in experimenting and researching formulas and DNA samples to make the very best possible pets for a specific job. PVE pets are kinetic resistance and high health and action. Who cares about the rest? It's called min-maxing, and it's not a new concept. The CL seems to be calculated by an overall count of the quality of the different areas, so it makes sense that you could maximize a few areas, gimp the rest, and result in a quality pet within the allowed level. The creatures that we've used in sampling are specific, yes, bigwhoop. If you're looking for a set oftraits, like high kinetic and armor,and find one that matches that, you'll use it. The dna does NOT howeverproduce any surprisingresults thatcould not be reproduced with another animal withthe same stats (ifsuch exists)andpredicted by the manygreat formulas that are posted on these BE boards. If the devsdon't want a non-ch pet to have over 3k health or10 kinetic- fine, they should have put a cap in place with this last fix. I wouldn't agree with an artificial cap like that, but at least let us know where we stand on this so I'm not wondering how many people I'm going to be apologizing to each week because of a change.
As a previous poster said, this is a great profession as it is set up. Perhaps it's the explorer and achiever in me - I like to feellike the work I've done is rare and revolutionary. It's not all laid out cut and dried, and I've loved experimenting and applying formulas and creating spreadsheets and research records. It feels like an actual science, and is the only crafting profession I've had any remote interest in. If it's going to be gimped by artificial caps and such, it loses a whole lot of appeal to me as it moves closer to a regular crafting profession that everything is known and has beenmapped out 1000 times before.
Working within the game mechanics as designed and several times modified by SOE to be called a cheater when our weeks of work pay off sounds like sour grapes at best, and is just plain insulting.
Tal-N
Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:40 pm
#31
No, i didnt say generationalizing is an exploit, I pioneered the concept before release so of course that isn't what I meant. I'm saying that there are pets just like these ones which are currently invalid and with good reason. If this wasn't an exploit then everyone who generationalized clones would be seeing something like this however it seems to be only when you take specific combinations of certain species. Someone PM'd me the details on how they did it and this isn't simply a case of creating pure inbred clones but mixing recycled dna with fresh dna. This leads me again to think that the oddities with resampling are occouring as they have in the past 2 cases which were causing invalid pets.
It doesn't take a genius to look at these pets which have HAM and rests equal to something which is CL20 in the wild, yes damage can be traded off but that doesn't explain how come people have been struggling to keep pets under CL10 for ages and keeping the HAM around 3000. I pinpointed the exact figures needed to create a high HAM tank, in every case when those guidelines were exceeded the clone went over CL10. So explain why one mysterious combination breaks these rules while everyone else found my guidelines to help them make 3000/2000/1000 pets with almost 100% success rate and yet when they did it differently the clone ended up too high. 5000/4000/3000 or something similar is simply far too high for a non-ch pet. It's going to be made invalid again now that the devs are aware of it.
This system they have made is so shaky I swear it was thrown together in 2 weeks like we saw.
Madry
Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:51 pm
#32
But it isn't taking a hit in damage. It's taking a hit in damage, by way of hitting power, ferocity, 6 other stats, and 7 other resists. To hit is low as is damage. The ONLY thing these pets have going for them is a good HAM and a good kinetic resist.
Degaulle
Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:53 pm
#33
"This system they have made is so shaky I swear it was thrown together in 2 weeks like we saw."
There we go. Point made. We have been nerfed / fixed ... whatever you want to call it numerous times. They did not test these changes properly or test the extremes thereof. Its the way this game has been since day one with a few exceptions.
There we go. Point made. We have been nerfed / fixed ... whatever you want to call it numerous times. They did not test these changes properly or test the extremes thereof. Its the way this game has been since day one with a few exceptions.
Madry
Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:03 pm
#34
Alright, on considering this further, it sounds to me like you're saying the dna type we're using in the creation type is what is bugged, causing lower CL. If this is so, then if another creature can be found and sampled from that can produce similar results, either yet another creature is giving bugged dna, or else it is working as intended, would you agree?
I have no such other creature to offer for this as yet, since this one has worked so well, but by god I'm going to look. But even if I make an identical non-ch pet with the same "too good" stats, I'll just be told that it's bugged too. I think an official response to this would be nice so I can know if I need to find a different profession that isn't screwed.
BM-Lion
Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:48 pm
#35
Tal-N
Actually it is not one specific combination as you state.I gave you 2 examples of the introduction fresh DNA into the 2nd generation. Different DNA is used to obtain different specials. I've used TMB, Arachne Webmaster BMB, Rancor Youth, Voritior Dasher, Vexed Voritor and others. Everything after 2nd gen is exact generational cloneing as the desired secials I was aiming for are present in the clones.
Reguardless of whether these pets are determined at a later date to be invalid, they are currently not exploits. I am still awaiting your explanation on why this method is considered an exploit other than we introduced fresh DNA into the 2nd generation clones. How else would one get varying stats and specials. Stateing they are higher than you've been able to legally achieve is hardly a case. I, unlike yourself have never sold or used a known bugged pet as you have admitted to.
For the record.. we have used the formulas found in these forums to get to where we are. We've bred in vulnerabilites, estimated hams and damage ect. So if the method of thier creation is an exploit, then anyone creating ANY pet is exploiting the system by useing math to determine the end results and useing that data effectivly.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
Actually it is not one specific combination as you state.I gave you 2 examples of the introduction fresh DNA into the 2nd generation. Different DNA is used to obtain different specials. I've used TMB, Arachne Webmaster BMB, Rancor Youth, Voritior Dasher, Vexed Voritor and others. Everything after 2nd gen is exact generational cloneing as the desired secials I was aiming for are present in the clones.
Reguardless of whether these pets are determined at a later date to be invalid, they are currently not exploits. I am still awaiting your explanation on why this method is considered an exploit other than we introduced fresh DNA into the 2nd generation clones. How else would one get varying stats and specials. Stateing they are higher than you've been able to legally achieve is hardly a case. I, unlike yourself have never sold or used a known bugged pet as you have admitted to.
For the record.. we have used the formulas found in these forums to get to where we are. We've bred in vulnerabilites, estimated hams and damage ect. So if the method of thier creation is an exploit, then anyone creating ANY pet is exploiting the system by useing math to determine the end results and useing that data effectivly.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
picasso11
Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:20 am
#37
The email is sent with the formulas I've used. Now I guess we wait and see what part is the exploit.
Man I am so mad right now. I *HATE* being called a cheater.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
Man I am so mad right now. I *HATE* being called a cheater.
Agissar
Master BioEngineer
Tarquinas
i agree 1000% it is our JOB to push the envelope
Tevys
Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:32 am
#38
If generation cloning is an 'exploit' they should take it out of the game completely. why is there even an argument? If it is there then it is meant to be an option. Im sure this would be an easy thing to take out if soe didnt mean for us to sample them. Since the option is there, dont get on someones case for using it. BE's who do this are not doing anything wrong.
Message Edited by Tevys on 02-17-2004 05:34 AM
Tal-N
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:42 am
#39
Ok, fine be stubborn again, this happened the last 2 times and when people said they were overpowered we were right cause it got changed. If you folks are going to be so blind as to not learn from history then you're doomed to repeat it over.. and over.. and over. I'm not going to waste my breath this time.