Bio Engineer Archive

Ah, perhaps we have a clue:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=wanderhome_trade&message.id=19889#M19889

If you were fighting for ethics, Greenstok, you would find me at your side. Here, however, you have taken a personal opinion, and turned it into a crusade, and your readiness to turn the advice to back off and think a little about your actions into a battle is as good an indication of that as anything else I could suggest.

As I said, you started with what seems to be an honest opinion, but you have come to the point of almost a knee-jerk reaction to anyone with a different point of view, and to making your personal opinion into a standard of passing judgement on others. That is a dangerous road you travel. You might want to remember a line about "then someone should make them listen." spoken by a rather central character in the movies we're all fond enough of to want to virtually "live here". Enforcing ones own opinions as law doesn't have much of a future.

If you choose not to sell schematics, that is a right you have, and a choice you are entitled to make. If you decide that your opinion entitles you to defame others for espousing a different opinion, you have most assuredly crossed the line. Thinking that gives you the right to suggest that others have no right to a voice here, or that they should not be part of the community because they hold a different opinion is what I am challenging here, not your right to your opinion, and you need to go back and re-read your posts, and see just how far over that line you're going, so you can get back to something more like an honest discussion and less like an inquisition.

I never take offense at someone holding a different belief. I do, however, object when they hold their different belief against me as a judgement. The first they have every right to do; the second is nothing short of arrogance. I think you started with good intentions, and have just gotten so involved in your point that you have lost sight of the rest of your actions.

LLan

/laugh Score one for Arthur

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DaBartender wrote:

Arthur, if he's paying for the schematics, then he is paying for the trims and tissuesisn't he? And how do you know how big his tips are? Also I don't know if you are aware but chefs have more products than just brandy which we can't sell for 150k or more per crate even if they are BE enhanced. Should chefs sell these items for loss just because BE's feel they are missing a profit somewhere?

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Most BE's are hurting for resources, and can't really supply their customers with as many crates as they'd like. Why waste BE enhancements on a lower-profit item when you could put them in a higher-profit item?

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DaBartender wrote:

Arthur, if he's paying for the schematics, then he is paying for the trims and tissuesisn't he?

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Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-04-2004 03:13 PM

Yes, you are right, ethics is a personal crusade Akelan. It has always been. I am not ashamed of it. I am not passive about it either. I have always refused training for people who sell bugged pets, for selling CL 90 Kimos, giving those who pay enormous amounts, false hope that they would one day be tamable. Those who sell schematics are deciding not to getting intoa market and stealing money from those who do.

You sound very peaceful and resonable. For all I know, you are one of the scammers, or not even a BE at all like some of the others posting. I have been disapointed by much of the ethics have seen so far.

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LeninOnBria wrote:

Ya know, geez, I'm getting so sick of chefs brow beating us over pricing.

How many chefs? Dude, you'vebeen brow beating chefs for weeks, now. Do you know what projection is?

Yet, on the servers,business deals are getting done to everyone's satisfaction.

They want free schematics. Fine.

Most people getting schematics from BEs are paying. I've been paying near 200K per schematic - at times less, but I've never paid a price I didn't think was fair. If the BEfelt my offer was unfair - well, frankly, I'm in a position where I'd have a hard time turning down any price - I'd probably pay his price. But that has never happened. (note that I never have enough meat to make a full factory run, so I'm not paying for the equivalent of 40 crates. Quite often I only get 10-15 crates from the schematic - that means I'm paying around 15-20K per crate, even though the expenditure, in time and money, are mine.) As, I've noted here before, I would STONGLY prefer to buy crates, at almost any price ... since it would free me from having to constantly search for meat, it would save medaysof factory time every week, etc. The fact is that I've never found a BEable to sell more than a handful of crates at a time. Sell me crates in bulk, I'm buying., and paying very very well.

They tellUS what our prices should be:25k-40k/crateFine. They want to charge up to 600k for their own products. Fine.

"They"? Crikey, you've got a real martyr complex there, Art. You know the Vatican, the Crown and the Chefs are controlling everything nowadays. They really are out to get you.

I think I'll just do what they do, when I need food I'll find some noob MC who doesn't have a clue what he's doing and just buy schematics from him.

Thisbegs the question: why not just be a chef? See, when I buy schematics from you it is to make Chef product, when you're buying schematics from me it is to make Chef products. Why would you continue to be a Bio-Engineer if what you really want to be is a Chef? If I wanted to make Bio-Engineer products, I'd become a Bio-Enigineer. (and, in fact, I've been thinking of it lately.) But, for now,I want to be a succesful Chef, and unfortunately right now that means I need Bio-Enigineer products, made mostly by myself since very few Bio-Enigineers are making them.If you come to me wanting schematics, and are willing to pay a fair price, I'll be more than happy to make them for you. I'd wonder why you didn't want to be spending your time being a Bio-Engineer - but thats your business.

Then I'll toss him a nickel, kick him in the butt,and tell him he should be glad to get that. If you go the large glass/light additive route, anyone with dom arts 4 (that's me) can make that. All that leaves is the alcohol/soypro or whatever and the food/drink schematic itself. And according to chefs schematics are worthless anyway right? since it only takes a couple of minutes to make.

Tell me, mein droog,how many chefs have said that the schematics are worthless compared to those who are paying and often paying very well for them?

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Hero

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There's an easy way to tell, Greenstok. Scan the forum for posts by me. Check the trade forum, and the server forum for the server I am on for posts by me. Check the recipes, the offer of a "dna sequencer" Bio-engineer tool program and the posts on pets (start with Ayris' tybis). It should be patently obvious with a cursory check whether or not I am a BE. I make the assumption based on your inpassioned interest in this issue that you are as well.

You are right in that ethics are indeed personal. Imposing yours on others is as well, and not in anything resembling a positive light. Convincing through reason and even emotional appeal is free speech. Telling others they have no place here because they disagree with a belief of yours is not. You started with one, and drifted deep into the other, and I hope you recognize and adjust your approach once it is called to your attention.

You'd find me a pleasant and interesting companion, and as willing to share and assist as anyone you are likely to meet, should we encounter each other somewhere other than on opposing sides of such a situation as this. Perhaps we can get back to where we both can contribute, rather than continue to bleat our littanies as law, and find some way to help the community make a reasonable decision on a question that does indeed merit a concerned discussion.

LLan

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-05-2004 11:25 AM

Art,

2 whole chefs? Wow!! Out of how many?

Of the total number of chefs out there, I'm even willing to allow that you'll find a lot more than 2 chefs that aren't the worthiest specemins. You might even find 6!! My post did a little name calling because you've been acting like a twit; fanning, on both profession boards,totally unneccesary bad feeling because a couple chefs did or said something that got your goat.But, beyond that, there was plenty of substance in my post, and if you're going to let a little name-calling get in the way of adressing that, thenI'm perfectly happy to call you another name.

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All you are doing is embarrasing yourself and giving your fellow chefs a bad name.

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Actually,I don't claim to represent chefs. Just like I would never assume that all BEs are as jacked up just because I bumped into you.

If you're the type of person who would judge all chefs based only on ... oh, wait ... you're exactly the kind of person who judge all chefs based only on what I do.

Hero

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