Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: New Tailor Tissues
Seiryuu wrote:
Whee! One starred for a suggestion I thought would help both Tailors and Armorsmiths.
Is there is some bad blood happening where the mere thought of helping the other profession a horrible idea? Some sort of hornet's nest I should be aware of before throwing out further suggestions?
There are passive aggressive sorts that like to one star people, especially on this forum. Try to not to take it personally. Also keep in mind that this is a game and enhancing the gameto it's fullest I would hope is a much better objective than a perticular profession or personal bias.
Armor is used by and enjoyed by most of the people who do combat. Clothes/Armor are not that different and putting them into the same group is by no means a stretch. There is a reason why they occupy the same slot on your character. The community at large will be very upset if armor is nerfed down to the point where it is not much better than wearing clothes. I don't see that happening since the out cry will be too great. So we are at a point where we as BEs can piss away this oppertunity, and tailors too, to try to get into theeconomy of armor. We and tailors can both provide, tailors already do this to some extent, subcomponents to armor, and hence get in on the action of the armor economy. Or you can take a stance and say you want something that the majority of the people do not want, and hence won't happen, like having armor nerf to the point wherepeople would actual consider wearing clothes. Jedi not wearing armor plus a mild lowering of composite armor is about the extent of the armor nerf will be. Anything more would be such a huge nerf as to enrange the ASs and the people who rely on that armor.Armor is a great balance between non-jedi and jedi.Armor will take a hit, but not so bad as people willuse clothesas alternative. The lower resist armors may have a chance of being considered worthwhile with BE tissues. That is an area where we can put our current tissues and new tissues into the market.
I do aggree that tailors should have a strong market and can even be a part of the combat clothing, ie armor, market. There are other activities beyond combat however, and non-combat clothing can do well there. Part of running a good business is to know the market and where your product fits and where it doesn't fit in. Some of our tissues tie in directly with the combat market and yet aren't used since they don't fit into a market dominated by armor. Now as a BE if my tissues can be sold to a tailor or armorsmith or both, my choice would be both of course. It gives the BEs a larger market. Kinda like saying food enhancements can be sold to chefs or smugglers or both. A BE would say both, even if the chefs were a bit upset with it but would make for a few happy smugglers.
Just one question Nancy, why the bias for wanting us to interact solely with one profession and not an additionalprofession?
for example:
BE Tissue x gives +15 to melee defense and has a "duration" value of 10
both the bonus to melee defense, and "duration" would have their own experimentation lines to make the tissue crafting itself more interesting and challenging.
when a tailor puts the tissue into a piece of synthcloth or RFP, both values are transfered onto the synthcloth.
the way "duration" would work would be that once the synthcloth or RFP is placed into a piece of clothing and crafted...that piece of clothing would "decay" and destroy itself after a number of days has passed equal to the duration value.
some effort would have to be taken to insure that BE's could produce these tissues in sufficient quantity/quality to make this an appealing option (i.e. no domestic, avian, insect, crustacean, fish or planet specific meat or eggs unless the bonus is truly awe inspiring), and since this item would only last for a set period of time, the bonuses it grants could be made a lot higher than something that only follows the current decay model.
people might also not care how many times they die with it on because even if it suffers from 5% decay with each death...not a lot of people die 20 times in 10 days...and even then you could always insure it...and you'd have to die 100 times in 10 days...it is possible, but certainly not common for this to happen.
A lot of the current tailors seem to like to interact directly with their customers, and having this kind of decay on 1 specific type of product they can make would allow them to "reward" those that they socialize with, or allow them to interact with more people than they would ordinarily be able to.
Tailors would also definately want to carefully consider if they would even want the ability to make some of their clothing into what is essentially a consumable (and thus potentially a steady source of income, or customers to interact with)...or if they amount of demand would simply be more than what they want to deal with. but since only BE'd clothing with certain mods would have the "duration" system...they would still have a choice as to whether or not they wanted to go with that option.
I know this is long...but here are some suggestions for other BE tissues...
1) a tissue that multiplies the bonus given by any SEA inserted into it (maybe only certain types)
2) melee attack speed modifiers (clothing is lighter than armor...so shouldn't you be able to swing that sword faster?)
ArthurDentOnBria's list covers pretty much anything else I could think of....so no need to repeat any of it.
Is there is some bad blood happening where the mere thought of helping the other profession a horrible idea? Some sort of hornet's nest I should be aware of before throwing out further suggestions?
Its been said many times in this thread but I'll say it again, if tissues were added to armour it would completely destroy a huge chunk of the tailoring business and I have desire to get on N'Jessi's bad side
Tissues were able to be added to armour for a while, however that was a bug and was removed very swiftly, I've seen no indication that the devs intend to reverse this decision and no indication from the armoursmiths that they desire to have BE enhancements in armour.
Tailors already have tissues, they like them and they want more, we should be supporting them, not telling them that we should be giving their business to armoursmiths, and they should be happy just to make the cloth.
NancyJ wrote:
meplorium, you seem to be getting stuck on the same things again, saying tailors should be happy just to make the subcomponents for armoursmiths is incredibly rude and insulting.
On a side note, maybe making more subcomponents isn't the way to go. Perhaps we should request the ability to make skill tapes with out tissues which can be sold directly to customers and used in any way the customer chooses.
Meplorium wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
meplorium, you seem to be getting stuck on the same things again, saying tailors should be happy just to make the subcomponents for armoursmiths is incredibly rude and insulting.
It would however be helpful, not hurtful, to the tailor business over all to havethearmor construction processbe more dependent on them to some degree.
What I find disturbing and insulting is this desire by some tailors, and I will leave it at some as I know a few tailors who do not feel this way, but this desire to have armor and hence all combat professions save one to be nerf to the level of clothing. I find that very selfish and rather self defeating for those that want this. The end result will be the death of armorsmith and tailor combined.
Wow.
Now I can understand why there aren't too many tailors posting here on a subject which concerns probably the only money-making aspect of our profession.
I did not become a Tailor to be a supplier to Armorsmiths. I became a tailor because I enjoy crafting clothing.. both regular and bio enhanced. Since regular clothing does not yield a large profit margin, I rely on BE clothing for the bulk of my income and profit. I don't want to sit and make factory runs of synthetic cloth and reinforced fiber panels as my only means of making money. I still make and will make far less money than any Armorsmith I know... and I know that from having an alt who isn't even a Master AS yet.
I certainly don't want Armor to be nerfed to the level of clothing, nor do I think it will be. It will always be stronger than any BE clothing and will be more desired by high level combat players, no matter what it's nerfed to.
As for insulting and disturbing? I'd love to see BE's be able to craft tissues with many other properties and be placeable in many other tailor made clothing items. I'm not suggesting that any other profession be allowed to make BE products other than Bio Engineers.... yet you suggest that Armorsmiths be able to use BE tissues that until now have been only usable by Tailors.
Who should be insulted or disturbed?
Selfish? Encouraging BE tissues to be useable by another profession just so that there can be a wider market for them is a bit selfish, methinks.
'JonMichael- Master Tailor/Master Image Designer
Suenr wrote:
I am finding this talk about how tailors being insulted by being stuck making subcomponents in a thread about us making more subcomponents for tailors rather insulting. I would love to see more tissues, and I would love to see them used by people wearing armor. I would prefer to see it by having more clothing items that can be worn while wearing armor (really, who wears hard, cold armor over their bare skin or wears boots and shoes with no socks anyway?), but having them built into armor is a real option to me as well. I don't want to hurt the tailors feelings, but this is the BE board and the most important thing is to increase the usefulness of BE items. And to increase the usefulness of our tissue line, we must not only come up with more useful tissues, but the ability to use them while wearing armor.
I think a lot of people need to re-read the start of this thread by NancyJ. Here it is:
N'Jessi is going to be pushing for new tailor tissues at the CB summit so to help her out can we put all our ideas for new tailor tissues in this thread, then we can get a balance of what the tailors want and what we want to put forward.
Thanks.