Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA Storage
Bonestein
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:35 am
#40
1. I like the idea of sampling blood
2. Blood should be stackable
3. DNA should be extracted from the blood and have the same randomized numbering on each DNA sample as it does now. (just like sampling from a pet as said above)
4. there would be nothing better than to sample the same set of creatures all day such as the mutant rancors, and have a bottle of blood with say 20 samples in it. Then go back to your house and sample the DNA from the bottle of blood as you need it. Then there are 20 DNA samples in 1 inventory slot, instead of 20 slots.
I like the idea, make it simple, no revamps of the system, just add the "Sample Blood" to the list of actions on the creature. Make the blood stackable in a single container. Sample DNA at a later time when it is needed.
This would definatly make it easier to carry DNA around so you can make creatures on demand when you get the /tell hell of Can you make me a creature?? Just pull out your crafting droid, sample the DNA from the bottles of blood, and make the creature.
Bonestein
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:42 am
#41
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johnhaines said:
"I agree with the importance of not allowing DNA to stack and thus the factory creation of pets. If this happens we will be stuck with yet another profession where only masters can sell there goods. A master BE could easily create an uber level 10 pet schematic and flood the market with it. As it is, I am making a tidy little bit of money selling non-ch kaadu mounts in starports. I know that a master can make a better one than me, I am still only 0/2/2/3, but the hand-crafting aspect allows everyone into the market."
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
If the DNA is has to be sampled from blood, and the numbers are randomized during DNA sampling of the blood, there will be no way to run factory runs of Creatures. Meaning they will not be able to put 5 bottles of Blood into the factory and start it up. They would have to pull DNA from each bottle one at a time. I don't like the idea of runing creatures ina factory, and I think the Stackable Blood solution is the right way to go.
Seraphym14
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:23 am
#42
I wondered how long it would take for the erroneous car analogy to be brought up.
I think its compulsory in these discussions.
We are not asking for a complete system revamp, we're asking for a simple modification,
1 little step being added to the process. Instead of taking a DNA sample you take a 'blood sample'
which is an object (that doesnt even need new graphics there are plenty of containers with red stuff
in game already) that holds a pointer to a Creature datafile. Thats it, no new functions need to be
written to do this, the blood would contain the same data as a pet deed that we can resmaple, just
with a different name and graphic and step taken to obtain the data object. Whether we want blood to
stack and be 1 blood for 1 dna or non stacking and 1 blood for 1 donor is something thats open for
discussion but neither system constitutes a profession or system rewrite.
I wonder how long it will take for someone to actually address the point of my post, not simply pick
at the edges and ignore the issue. We were an afterthought. Our pet creation system is based off a
ranged random number generator. We are a class of walking roulette wheels.
Fix the class, stop putting in more garbage that doesn't fix the problem, stop advocating anything that
simply prolongs getting the programmers to really fix the class.
So, there is no discussion about this, actually. The BE correspondent isn't listening to anyone who
doesn't agree with the blood sample idea. Great. At least when I was a volunteer CSR for SoE, I didn't
sell my soul for a pat on the back from a dev.
/bow
I think its compulsory in these discussions.
We are not asking for a complete system revamp, we're asking for a simple modification,
1 little step being added to the process. Instead of taking a DNA sample you take a 'blood sample'
which is an object (that doesnt even need new graphics there are plenty of containers with red stuff
in game already) that holds a pointer to a Creature datafile. Thats it, no new functions need to be
written to do this, the blood would contain the same data as a pet deed that we can resmaple, just
with a different name and graphic and step taken to obtain the data object. Whether we want blood to
stack and be 1 blood for 1 dna or non stacking and 1 blood for 1 donor is something thats open for
discussion but neither system constitutes a profession or system rewrite.
I wonder how long it will take for someone to actually address the point of my post, not simply pick
at the edges and ignore the issue. We were an afterthought. Our pet creation system is based off a
ranged random number generator. We are a class of walking roulette wheels.
Fix the class, stop putting in more garbage that doesn't fix the problem, stop advocating anything that
simply prolongs getting the programmers to really fix the class.
So, there is no discussion about this, actually. The BE correspondent isn't listening to anyone who
doesn't agree with the blood sample idea. Great. At least when I was a volunteer CSR for SoE, I didn't
sell my soul for a pat on the back from a dev.
/bow
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:45 am
#43
I actually don't care whether people are able to make pets in factories or not. All it means is that they'll be making ones less pet with the same number of dna samples than I will, so more power to them.
My objection to the "stacking dna" approach is that I don't think we get much benefit from it. If I take a look at the dna that I have stored right now, there are exactly 150 samples (I know this because I have one house devoted to it, and it's always 100% full, lol). Of those 150 samples I'd say there are samples from probably 25 different creatures. So in other words 6 samples per creature. So on average that's 2 samples very quality type, per creatures. So looking at the two proposals my storage would be:
right now: 150
blood proposal: 25
dna stacking proposal: 75
There is simply no question which one would be superior in my situation. Personally, I don't think the dna stacking one is worth all the trouble of implementing if getting a 50% space reduction is all the benefit we'll see from it.
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:49 am
#44
Seraphym14 wrote:
Fix the class, stop putting in more garbage that doesn't fix the problem
Funny, because that's exactly my objection to the dna stacking solution. It's "more garbage that doesn't fix the problem".
1of2alts
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:00 am
#45
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Seraphym14 wrote:
Fix the class, stop putting in more garbage that doesn't fix the problem
Funny, because that's exactly my objection to the dna stacking solution. It's "more garbage that doesn't fix the problem".
Agreed. Seraphym if you think the class is so broken and you can't stand anyone not agreeing with you or with what you want, maybe there isanother profession that's better suited for you.
GMANHNC
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:25 am
#46
Shaft! I think i speak for most of us when I say I am glad Nancy Never says "Who's your Daddy?" when she smashes us.
1of2alts
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:26 am
#47
GMANHNC wrote:
Shaft! I think i speak for most of us when I say I am glad Nancy Never says "Who's your Daddy?" when she smashes us.
LOL
Bonestein
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:24 am
#48
So are we going to get our stackable blood samples? Thats the greatest idea ever, there would be no need to have a house just for holding DNA. it would be like anyother resource stacks, where you can make it up to 100k units of blood, But that is WAY too much blood. maybe limit it to 100 samples of blood to be stacked. So you would 100 DNA samples in the stack, you just have to sample it.
Suenr
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:29 am
#49
Bonestein wrote:So are we going to get our stackable blood samples? Thats the greatest idea ever, there would be no need to have a house just for holding DNA. it would be like anyother resource stacks, where you can make it up to 100k units of blood, But that is WAY too much blood. maybe limit it to 100 samples of blood to be stacked. So you would 100 DNA samples in the stack, you just have to sample it.
Well, they won't be adding blood harvesters into the game, so I don't think there will be any real problems with people having 100k stacks of blood lying around. Anyone who gets a stack of blood that large needs to get a life.
Seraphym14
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:29 am
#50
SO basically your objection to the idea is that if we cant have the pet crafting fixed *NOW* then we shouldn't ask for any fixes or changes to the profession or anything that would make the game more enjoyable to tide us over until a significant amount of development time can be devoted to the investigation of the validity issue.
I have listened to your disagreements and iirc you are the only person in this thread to who totally disagrees with this proposal.
My job is to represent the whole community, not put of making suggestions that 90% of the community are in favor of just because one or two people dont like the idea.
1. Volunteer CSR for 3 years. I know the limitations the correspondents are under. I know anything that doesn't praise the dev's ideas or agree with them completely is ignored or said to be "negative" and then ignored.
2. Yes, I am suggesting that we hold our ground for the real fix and not accept candy that will simply allow them to shove us in the corner and not address the real issues.
3. We lose a voice when we accept half measures. It allows them to say "but we just gave you x, y and z".
4. If I didn't love the class, I wouldn't care enough to say anything.
5. Having a different opinion here is obviously invitation to be ridiculed so why would anyone voice one?
6. One star me and bash me all you want for having the courage to speak up.
This forum has lost many strong voices in the past, sadly. What remains is people who think far too much of themselves hanging around trying to put everyone else down.
/bye
I have listened to your disagreements and iirc you are the only person in this thread to who totally disagrees with this proposal.
My job is to represent the whole community, not put of making suggestions that 90% of the community are in favor of just because one or two people dont like the idea.
1. Volunteer CSR for 3 years. I know the limitations the correspondents are under. I know anything that doesn't praise the dev's ideas or agree with them completely is ignored or said to be "negative" and then ignored.
2. Yes, I am suggesting that we hold our ground for the real fix and not accept candy that will simply allow them to shove us in the corner and not address the real issues.
3. We lose a voice when we accept half measures. It allows them to say "but we just gave you x, y and z".
4. If I didn't love the class, I wouldn't care enough to say anything.
5. Having a different opinion here is obviously invitation to be ridiculed so why would anyone voice one?
6. One star me and bash me all you want for having the courage to speak up.
This forum has lost many strong voices in the past, sadly. What remains is people who think far too much of themselves hanging around trying to put everyone else down.
/bye
Spazzers
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:37 am
#51
I'm totally against making animals in factories. If you feel slighted that other crafting classes can use factories I can only recommend that you join those classes. Crafting animals takes skill. Either you learn the skill required to craft animals which you can be proud of or you become a chef.
Obviously DNA can't stack. The stats are different for each and every sample. If every sample were identical and could stack we'd be right back to the original clone system we had prior to December 2003. No more using your notes and paying attention to what you're doing. Just insert DNA from stack A and click combine. Why even have a template when they all come out the identical anyway? Imagine 1000 killer eopies jumping out of a factory ready to take over the world.
To the original question at hand, yes the blood sample is a good idea. No, I don't think it will ever be implemented because of the coding involved.
A simple solution is to make storage droid capacity larger.150 samples for example the same as a small house. I can have however many droids in my datapad holding up to 150 samples. Storage problem solved.
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:45 am
#52
Spazzers,
I don't disagree, and I think that's a reasonable fallback position. Having a droid, or a "freezer" as someone else suggested, or both is a pretty simple but effective solution. It actually has some advantages to blood samples in that with blood samples you lose the ability to pick and choose what creatures you sample. For example lately I've become a lot of "HAM" concious, sampling only MH's that have 13k HAM or more for example. You'd lose the ability to make such distinctions with the blood thingy. The other thing about blood samples is that it would be a very poor solution for those that store a lot of unique multi-generational samples. Also this does bring in other crafter classes like architect and droid engineer which is also a positive.
I still think the blood sample idea would probably give us a superiour overall solution, but the freezer/droid thingy would also be good.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-10-2004 11:46 AM