Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA Storage
Pantsy
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:45 am
#27
While the blood sample ideas are interesting, why make things more complicated? Let's just use Occam's Razor- the simplest solutions are usually the right ones. Just give us a storage container that doesn't count as much towards house or inventory capacity.
NancyJ
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:51 am
#28
Pantsy wrote:While the blood sample ideas are interesting, why make things more complicated? Let's just use Occam's Razor- the simplest solutions are usually the right ones. Just give us a storage container that doesn't count as much towards house or inventory capacity.
Because the devs have already said they wont do that.
DNA takes more database space than any other item in the game, they simply wont allow us to store any more. Which is why the blood sample idea is so appealing, the samples themselves need contain no more data than 1 piece of DNA but we can obtain multiple samples from them.
c00kie
Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:42 am
#29
Spazzers wrote:
I'll add Iagree with a previous post that a vendor limit or cap and the DNA storage problem are unrelated. It was stated by SWG long agothat a vendor was never meant to be a storage device. I don't know many bio-engineers that sell DNA samples. I've settled on having a storage house to put DNA in. If I have 150 samples of DNA filling up my storage house then it meansI'm not making very many animals. If I'm not making animals why have the DNA to begin with?
Well, vendors may not be needed or intended for storage, but I can tell you that with 5 samples per template, 150 samples is 30 creatures right? That is provided you aren't storing hard to getDNA, like Reclusive Cavern Spider Queen and Mutant Rancor DNA... Which I like to store just in case someone wants a special pet... I don't burn all my good dna right after I get it anymore, its too big a waste based on the time I spend on it.
But the issue goes beyond DNA for BE's, honestly DNA storage, if you ask me, is a tiny portion of what the vendor limit problems bring to the table. What about my alt who is a BE/Tailor, and a little bit of merchant... There is NO WAY I can run a profitable business without selling full runs only to a person directly. Gone are the days of having an actual stock... (I digress though, sinc ethis is about dna storage)
I like the idea blood samples, but only if BE's collect them. 1 way to circumvent failures would be to make the blood sample the same level of difficulty to get as a sample is now... and part of the data that would go into blood is how many samples you can attain from it. So I sample blood from a mutant rancor and kill it (I think we should only be able to obtain 1 sample per creature) and that blood sample has 2 dna samples worth of blood.... which have a near 0 chance of failure in extracting, maybe 5%. And sampling a creature like a nightspide3r has a high chance of giving like 6 samples per blood sample, or maybe go higher)
The other idea I have is using the stuff we find in lairs as samples... so you sample a lair and get something useful other than eggs from it... but I dunno
Seraphym14
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:27 pm
#30
If you consider a pack, your personal inventory, the bank, and a storage house, you should have plenty of room to store DNA. If you're packing away so much DNA you need to place it on a vendor you're not making many animals.
I invite you to make a character on Intrepid and visit my shop. Take a good look at my pet vendor... I have DNA stored because I spend days and weeks out sampling so I can sit at my shop and experiment to make better pets in a more empirically oriented environment. Playing with dna out in the field doesn't give me that.
As for DNA "storage" - there is no reason at all DNA can't stack if they made the DNA itemized:
VHQ - All identical numbers
HQ - All identical numbers
AA - All identical numbers
There, they can stack now. 50 Merek Death Head samples can now turn into 3 stacks.
I applaud the other ideas but I view "blood samples" as creating an entirely new system when the old one simply needs to be addressed properly.
I invite you to make a character on Intrepid and visit my shop. Take a good look at my pet vendor... I have DNA stored because I spend days and weeks out sampling so I can sit at my shop and experiment to make better pets in a more empirically oriented environment. Playing with dna out in the field doesn't give me that.
As for DNA "storage" - there is no reason at all DNA can't stack if they made the DNA itemized:
VHQ - All identical numbers
HQ - All identical numbers
AA - All identical numbers
There, they can stack now. 50 Merek Death Head samples can now turn into 3 stacks.
I applaud the other ideas but I view "blood samples" as creating an entirely new system when the old one simply needs to be addressed properly.
Amana
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:45 pm
#31
Well I feel we kind of got an even trade off of how items stack the only problem is when we start to run out of room, I feel that we should be able to keep the current system except let genetic templates stack in a way so that we can go into a sub pack system or another to pick the ones we want.
1of2alts
Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:21 pm
#32
Seraphym14 wrote:
As for DNA "storage" - there is no reason at all DNA can't stack if they made the DNA itemized:
VHQ - All identical numbers
HQ - All identical numbers
AA - All identical numbers
There, they can stack now. 50 Merek Death Head samples can now turn into 3 stacks.
And you can now make a schematic and make 9 pets in your factory. No thanks. DNA should not stack and should not be identical.
Seraphym14
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:33 pm
#33
And you can now make a schematic and make 9 pets in your factory. No thanks. DNA should not stack and should not be identical.
According to whom, may I ask? You are posting alot of very "my way or highway and everyone else's opinions mean squat" here. No offense but my opinion and thought processes are just as valid as yours, so please do me a favor and stop trolling posts discounting everyone.
What DNA should and should not do obviously is subjective. I am not the first person to bring this rational forward. For that matter, why *shouldn't* we be able to make pets in factories? I'm not fool enough to believe that automatic dna stacking will enable me to make a pet in a factory but *why shouldn't* we be able to? Every other class can make items in factories. All other resources stack.
I'm sorry that some programmer came up with the current dna/creature creation system and none of the current programmers understand it or can even fathom it but why continue to beat us with whips for their inability to grasp and admit that? Honestly. I beta tested SoE games in the past. I lived and actively participated in feedback testing on their Test Servers for years. I've seen this rational more times than I care to admit.
The wheel wouldn't need to be remade if the programmers understood how the wheel was made to begin with.
According to whom, may I ask? You are posting alot of very "my way or highway and everyone else's opinions mean squat" here. No offense but my opinion and thought processes are just as valid as yours, so please do me a favor and stop trolling posts discounting everyone.
What DNA should and should not do obviously is subjective. I am not the first person to bring this rational forward. For that matter, why *shouldn't* we be able to make pets in factories? I'm not fool enough to believe that automatic dna stacking will enable me to make a pet in a factory but *why shouldn't* we be able to? Every other class can make items in factories. All other resources stack.
I'm sorry that some programmer came up with the current dna/creature creation system and none of the current programmers understand it or can even fathom it but why continue to beat us with whips for their inability to grasp and admit that? Honestly. I beta tested SoE games in the past. I lived and actively participated in feedback testing on their Test Servers for years. I've seen this rational more times than I care to admit.
The wheel wouldn't need to be remade if the programmers understood how the wheel was made to begin with.
1of2alts
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:43 pm
#34
Seraphym14 wrote:
According to whom, may I ask? You are posting alot of very "my way or highway and everyone else's opinions mean squat" here. No offense but my opinion and thought processes are just as valid as yours, so please do me a favor and stop trolling posts discounting everyone.
Firstoff you obvioulsy have read my posts in this thread. I was first more supportive of the non-stackable blood sample idea that Nancy proposed. After a discussion with other posters on this thread, I changed that opinion, to be more faverable to the stacking blood sample proposal. If I was acting the way you state, I would never have changed my opinion now would I? If you're going to acuse me of something at least make sure I'm actually doing it.
Also, I'm not trolling, I'm posting my opinion about your idea. That's called discussion.
Why don't I want pets made in factories? Because I like the fact the BE is a unique profession. I like the fact that every pet we make is by hand, no 2 pets are alike, and every pet made is a result of skill in the use of DNA and experimentation points.
I take no pride in the fact I can make a schematic and make a run of BSNs that sell for over a million credits, but I take a LOT of pride in every pet I make that sells for under 100K. Why? Because each pet was made at MY hands. Not in some factory. I feel having pets made in a factory lessens the profession.
Why don't I think your idea will fly? Because the devs have already stated there is a 'randomness factor' in the BE profession. That's been done intentionally. They wont make DNA stackable and allow pets to be created in a factory because they want the random factor in the system.
I much rather focus on a proposal that seems reasonable, and may have a chance at getting approved than one which will probably be dismissed based on past dev responses.
1of2alts
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:45 pm
#35
1of2alts wrote:
not read my posts in this thread. I was first more supportive of the non-stackable blood sample idea that Nancy proposed.
I hate the fact that I can't edit !
1of2alts
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:23 pm
#36
Actually..looking back if I had given my reasons for not liking your suggestion in my first post, you probably wouldn't have thought I was trying to troll, so for that I'll admit I should have provided my reasoning.
Eh..blame it on the 5 sets of meds I started taking this afternoon. Instead of saying "may cause drowsiness or dizzyness", it should say "tripple check all posts made on forums while under this medication" 
Spazzers
Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:48 am
#37
Yes the vendor limit will be a large impact on the crafting professions. One complete run of BNS for a chef that I place on my vendor so they can pick it up at their leisure leave me very little space for other items such as pet meds and a variety of animals.
I was only addressing DNA storage and in that light the vendor cap has little effect on that.
If you consider a pack, your personal inventory, the bank, and a storage house, you should have plenty of room to store DNA. If you're packing away so much DNA you need to place it on a vendor you're not making many animals.
Seraphym14
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:00 am
#38
A simple coding line added to DNA Templates Created can disallow the manufacturing in factories, while still allowing the actual DNA to stack.
As far as the "randomness" goes... please re-read my statement that the programmers have no clue how it works.
"Hey Fred, do you understand this BE coding?"
"Hell no, it looks like they married the random number generator to a set range tho."
"Any idea on how to make it uniform, a set rule pattern?"
"No Bill, just tell them "it's working as intended" and the "randomness" makes them special."
Again please understand, you are buying a whole new car when all it needs is a good alignment because the car salesman has bullied you into believing that the car can't be fixed.
P.S. I have made *thousands* of pets. Literally. I just finished making over 400 pets for a huge upcoming player event on my server. I made 80 pets last week for a server wide player marriage. I *love* making pets but I (database specialist IRL) understand that these excuses of SoE's are complete horsepoo.
As far as the "randomness" goes... please re-read my statement that the programmers have no clue how it works.
"Hey Fred, do you understand this BE coding?"
"Hell no, it looks like they married the random number generator to a set range tho."
"Any idea on how to make it uniform, a set rule pattern?"
"No Bill, just tell them "it's working as intended" and the "randomness" makes them special."
Again please understand, you are buying a whole new car when all it needs is a good alignment because the car salesman has bullied you into believing that the car can't be fixed.
P.S. I have made *thousands* of pets. Literally. I just finished making over 400 pets for a huge upcoming player event on my server. I made 80 pets last week for a server wide player marriage. I *love* making pets but I (database specialist IRL) understand that these excuses of SoE's are complete horsepoo.
NancyJ
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:18 am
#39
I wondered how long it would take for the erroneous car analogy to be brought up. I think its compulsory in these discussions.
We are not asking for a complete system revamp, we're asking for a simple modification, 1 little step being added to the process.
Instead of taking a DNA sample you take a 'blood sample' which is an object (that doesnt even need new graphics there are plenty of containers with red stuff in game already) that holds a pointer to a Creature datafile. Thats it, no new functions need to be written to do this, the blood would contain the same data as a pet deed that we can resmaple, just with a different name and graphic and step taken to obtain the data object.
Whether we want blood to stack and be 1 blood for 1 dna or non stacking and 1 blood for 1 donor is something thats open for discussion but neither system constitutes a profession or system rewrite
We are not asking for a complete system revamp, we're asking for a simple modification, 1 little step being added to the process.
Instead of taking a DNA sample you take a 'blood sample' which is an object (that doesnt even need new graphics there are plenty of containers with red stuff in game already) that holds a pointer to a Creature datafile. Thats it, no new functions need to be written to do this, the blood would contain the same data as a pet deed that we can resmaple, just with a different name and graphic and step taken to obtain the data object.
Whether we want blood to stack and be 1 blood for 1 dna or non stacking and 1 blood for 1 donor is something thats open for discussion but neither system constitutes a profession or system rewrite