Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion Thread: Dna storage
SWG_Miriam wrote:The real problem is not that the Devs don't want us to have stackable DNA, but rather that they cannot give us stackable DNA because of the unique nature of each DNA sample. Each one has unique stats. If they simply created a new craftable storage mechanism, each DNA sample would still use up space in a data table -- in essence, giving Bioengineers more database space than other characters. This really wouldn't be fair to the other professions if only Bioengineers were granted "unlimited" database space. They would probably have to create a separate database 32 times for each server just to hold our stuff.Here's my thoughts: Instead of randomizing a DNA sample to create a unique one at the time of sampling, randomizing could happen when a bio-engineer removes a sample of a generic stack of something like "VHQ Mutant Rancor DNA".When sampling a creature, instead of the actual DNA sample showing up in our inventory, a stackable object called "VHQ Mutant Rancor DNA Container", or "VHQ Nuna DNA Container" would show up. This way a BE could go out into the field and collect stacks of 1000 VHQ Mutant Rancor DNA which would only take up 1 spot in the inventory. Then she could extract the DNA at her leisure -- at the time of extracting, the DNA sample would randomize into a unique object with unique stacks. Sort of like how Jedi tune their crystals for unique stats.With this method, I also envision a cottage industry starting up for BEs who would like to start a business just selling DNA. Buying a stack of 1000 Mutant Rancor samples from a (Master Ranger/Combat Class - BE 0/0/4/0) Hybrid is very appealing to me -- of course they'd have to move the ability to sample VHQ samples to BE 0/0/4/0. I would certainly pay "top credit" to another BE selling a stack of 100 MR samples. Currently the buying of DNA samples is not viable because of storage issues. This method would make it viable. This would also be a boon to Master Rangers since they can approach Mutant Rancors easier, and would give them one more thing they could harvest for money.
See the blood discussion earlier in this thread, and others dating a long time ago.
This in essence is the blood sampling idea.
SWG_Miriam wrote:
Here's my thoughts: Instead of randomizing a DNA sample to create a unique one at the time of sampling, randomizing could happen when a bio-engineer removes a sample of a generic stack of something like "VHQ Mutant Rancor DNA".
Hylidex wrote:
Meplorium wrote:
If I remember correctly they already shot down the 'storage houses' type solution due to database restraints. The DNA samples are the most data intensive object in the game. So I think we need to take the approach of what they can do that won't increase the db size of the object yet allow us to have a usuable sized DNA library. My only idea that would statisify both sides is to have DNA come out in stacks. So you DNA sample a nerf and get one DNA sample with 1-7 charges on it, depending on skill level. Similar to crates or stims or food. This does reduce the time needed to collect DNA in the field of course, but a back pack full of DNA would go much further. The failure rates could be adjusted so it would be harder to get a sample, but you get around 5 samples per success, to balance it out.
This should be fairly doable on their end and give use more DNA per item space, which is what we need. At the same time they are picking at the code they can do something about the naming too.
Actually, the proposal I wrote for this suggested it in order to CONSERVE on disk space. By using a DNA-specific data set, one would not need to store a large number of specific objects, but merely an array with the stats of the DNA in purely numeric form. The objects would be recreated on removal of the DNA from the lab. This is the reason the lab is limited to DNA. As it currently stands, the DNA hasa combination of data types, including text,and must be a terrible disk hog, especially if the text is in fixed-length strings.
I think your database skills are above that of Keldarin, so I don't see an eliquent solution like that coming about.
Thinking about just using pet deeds as a storage option, whichI do do at times. The problem is you never get the same samples from them as the orignals put in, which is both good and bad.Aside from that problem,pet deed DNA storage would work better if the sampling kill rate for master BEs were lowered. 0-5 samples from a deed isn't a good way to store dna, but if we got at least 5 samples, basically getting back what we put in, to 15 samples, then it would be a possible DNA storage solution. I would evenaccept it ifwe wereonly given 5 samples, no more, no less, from a deed. That way if you got a great pet, you can get the 4 samples then sell it or just make jaxes, can even color code them, for storage. Though we would need a way to see how many samples were taken from the deed.
Aleskander wrote:
My question is why is a dna sample used up when crafting a pet? In RL, a DNA sample is as small as a hair....which can be used more than once.
As a possible way to fix the storage problem, let us use the same DNA sample 2-5 times. When assembling the template, give us the chance to "recover" the DNA samples. So if I create a template using 5 MR samples, I might get 1 or all 5 samples back.
In RL, you actually use up your DNA, but you can create more where that came from. You split the strands to use them, and you rarely reanneal...but you DO replicate.
In your example, the "computer" way to do this would be to have a successful sampling produce a STACK of 1-5 identical samples of DNA. This would require very little coding change, done at the time of sampling, when random numbers are generated anyway, unless it also required a change to the DNA object to store a quantity number.
In a worst-case scenario it might allow a factory run of4 creatures. I don't see this as game-breaking, but if someone disagrees, the simplest solution would be to disable the schematic option in pet creation or to require a factory that doesn't exist.
In thinking about the lab option, I wonder if a specialized crafting station for pet crafting wouldn't be a simpler solution. Make it come in 4 parts, so it takes up 4 items in a building, and let it store 4 times what would normally be stored in the input hopper of one station. Then display the contents as a spreadsheet, as is done on the vendors, but with the information we need.
This doesn't allow us any additional storage over what we can already obtain, but it makes the storage appear in a usable form. The only real work on the developer part would be:
1. Graphic representation of the items. We already have new graphics coming out every publish. The art department isn't a bottleneck.
2. The display. We already have spreadsheet displays in game in the vendors and in the "change view" options in inventory and datapads. It is just a matter of making the right headers.
3. The windows. This might be the hardest part, since the interface would need a long window like the "offer item" list on vendors.
4. The check for other components at the start of the crafting station. I really think this is comparitively few lines of code.
The overall result is exactly the same as if we had four crafting stations, with one exception: The contents of the hopper would be displayed in a format we can use. I would even be happywith a storage penalty for this item--say allowing it to have only 3X the hopper space of one crafting station but still count as four house items.
1. I don't think that long-term storage is an issue. Every profession faces issues when it comes to storing their resources, crafted components etc. Why should Bioengineers get a DNA storage facility and Architects not get a Structural Module storage facility?
2. I think more focus should be given to short-term storage. I typically empty my inventory when going on a DNA sampling spree and it fills up within an hour if not faster.
So how about this (A mesh of things I read skimmed over here, but generalized to any profession):
a. A storage facility available to any profession.
b. A droid similar to a Survey droid, where you hand it a container full of stuff and it delivers it to your storage facility.
Also I think DNA should be labelled by animal type for easier managment followed by the quality, i.e. Gurrcat VHQ. Most of my item quota in my house is from having so many bags to organize my DNA.
Too much CSI I guess.
rahbert wrote:
1. I don't think that long-term storage is an issue. Every profession faces issues when it comes to storing their resources, crafted components etc. Why should Bioengineers get a DNA storage facility and Architects not get a Structural Module storage facility?
We are not asking for storage for anything except the DNA used in pets. A single pet requires a minimum of five unstackable resources plus two stackable resources. An advanced pet can require 20 or more unstackable resources. The difference between pet crafting and crafting structures is that pet crafting has such a high demand in unstackable resources. An architect can fit 1000 products worth of resources in top level inventory. For advanced pets, we are lucky to fit two or three. I think this makes our profession different enough to warrant a special consideration.
A second consideration is that our products are only marginally predictable. All other manufactured products can be accurately predicted given resource values. Our own tissues can, too. Pets cannot. We can only get a rough approximation of some stats and a wild guess at others. This creates a greater inventory demand for far fewer products.
Aleskander wrote:
One of my guildmates just found out an interesting fact.
I hardly ever do any crafting away from the station...very seldom use the droid at all. I've seen the hopper option show up, but never used it. It's always just been a pain when the window is too high and insted of selecting crafting you get the hopper window.
Well, it seems that anything put in the hopper (up to 100 items) does NOT count towards the items in the house.
I haven't tried it yet, but this will help a LOT with storage issues...now to find a lot of different crafting stations and tools