Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: On Mounts.
Spazzers wrote:
Sooty,
First off I don't see how the creature handler nerf helps us to be honest. Creature handlers are convinced wild animals are better than BE animals at any given level. In a lot of cases they are correct. Now there are new animals for them to tame. Will the clones be fixed before the nerf takes place? I'd be genuinely shocked. If they were going to wait I doubt they'd even be discussing a nerf since we have no clue when the clones will be fixed. There's nothing on testcenter. Why stir up a lot of creature handler folks for months before they nerf them?
Secondly, of course you use your engineered animals. They're free LOL.
Some CHs are convinced wild animals are better than BE ones because, for any given CL, they are right now. Every single creature I can make and tame I will guarantee is better than the wild version of the same pet - the problem is that there are wild creatures that we cannot make that are better than ours at most CL break points. However, I still sell many rancors and gurrecks to MCH (more than I can be bothered to make most of the time), clearly showing that they do realise that in those cases wherea pet we can make is useful, then our ones ARE the best. There is no reason to expect that to change after the clone line change comes in and every reason to expect that situation to improve.
If the CH you deal with are unaware of the superior nature of like-for-like comparison of BE against wild pets, I would suggest it has more to do with lack of information from the BEs on your server. Certainly on Tarq most CH I deal with are fully aware of the benefits of using BE pets where appropriate and, if they aren't, I take the time to educate them. Its a simple matter of building an intelligent customer base.
PS What has my bio-eng pets being 'free' got to do with anything? FYI, they aren't free, at the very least there is an opportunity cost for using a pet myself instead of selling it. But beyond that, I am not going to use pets that are inferior to others just because they are wild or bio-eng. I will use the best I can for the task at hand, whatever that may be. Right now that is often wild caught ones, but in the future that will change if we are to believe a quarter of what we have been told. And if you don't believe even that much, why bother keeping playing a BE?
I dont think that CH are convinced that wild creatures are much better than BE ones...its just that given the variety they have, the BE line seems severely limited.
Most CH I know readily agree that BE Gurrecks and Rancors are much better than the ones they can tame, but when the ones they can tame come for free, and in most cases not only do you have to pay for a BE one but also, in most cases, have to wait for one to be made, convenience sometimes take priority...as can be witnessed by the recent mount stampede...most people just want things immediately.
However, not all are like that. I have had some CHs come up to me for a marginally better Rancor or Gurreck with just an extra 500 ham or so, and are very patient in waiting for a good one to be made.
What you can expect from BE customers is in my opinion, basedon luck and location, until you are able to establish a good name for quality and service, before you get a steady stream of returning customers who will pay that little extra for BE made stuff. 
Let me summarize...
Buying from a BE vs a CH is:
1) Less convenient (must get your creature trained by a different person)
2) Less variety
3) Less powerful creatures at any given CL level
4) more exensive (no reason for a CH to ever charge more than a BE since they get them for free and train them themselves)
Talthazar wrote:
I've talked to Keldarin about our concerns with mounts. This was in no way meant to be a slight to BE's. The mount system needed to have the low level mounts available. The fix to make them craftable by us is to get the clone fixes in. Once this happens, our mounts will be able to be engineered better than wildones and we will see a decline in the availability of the wild low level mounts.
Tal, thanks for the feedback
As for the feedback I think thats a pretty sad attitude they are takeing towards the BE prof. They felt that "The mount system needed to have the low level mounts available". It already did.. The spat and the Kaadu.. excatly the same as what a BE has to offer. Why was it vital that CH's should be able to tame non-ch versions of all the pets, but unimportant that BE's was able to make low level mounts of the diffrent types?
And the whole "once this happens" in regards to the cloneing changes is by now, 3 months later, a slap in the face rather than a reassurance.
The BE dev asked in fustration sometime back why people were so fustrated on the BE boards, well the above post illustrates it quite well. Were fustrated because once again the BE prof is apparently not important enough to be a priority. If theres a pet related system going ingame it pretty much goes to the CH prof by default.
- The devs make game changes with what seems to be little to no consern about how this affects the BE profession (BE's are delt the low hand when it comes to mounts, the spawn changes to dath insect last patch, Added the tameing/control level's to pets with no regards to how BE's creatures would fit in the system)
- They have yet to make changes to a large number of the issues that we've been haveing since launch
- I know there has been a lot of talk about just what the devs said or promised or whatever. But wherever they promised black on white or not,the devsposts made it sound like this would originally be a matter of weeks before we would see the changes.. 3 months later it feels like were excatly at same place as we were 3 months ago.. nothing new under the sun in regards to the cloneing system.. we've seen a lot of pretty posts from the devs but even those of us who tried to back up the devs and took the 'give them time' attitude a couple of months ago have pretty much lost faith in the dev team. When the fustration level here gets especially high they'll post a post saying the same they said 3 months ago.. how great the cloneing system will be, how great its going to work. But we heard that the first time, we all agree (at least i belive the vast majority of us) that it sounds fantastic. But by now i think everyone has gotten to a point where they feel that talk is cheap and simply restateing what they already told us 3 months ago is even cheaper.
While im ranting, one reason i feel its especially unfortunate that they devs didnt feel it was a priority to let BE's play a central part in the mount system is that the profession has a core problem of being very centered on supplying the CH class. Its the old dilemma. most (i belive) BE's chose this profession in the hopes of makeing cool creatures. Its the cloneing changes most of us want and has been, and still iswaiting for. But haveing only one class as a potential market.. and a class that dosent even have to depend on us in the first place is an obvious flaw in the game design. So.. the BE's for a large part want to work with makeing pets and the devs havent created a natural market for this. The ONE chance since launch to allow BE's to both do what they wanted in the first place (cloneing) and still have a fairly big market that couldnt nessesarily get a similar product for free was mounts. But as said above, i guess the devs dosent consider the viability of the BE prof important enough.
The bottom line is that, while the devs might not have intended to 'slight the BE's' they nevertheless did just that.. again. Personally i must say its getting more and more fustrating
Traigus wrote:
Start up constructive threads working on new ideas and way to make the game better. Work with other professions, crosspost ideas for items and services.
Traigus. I agree with you. I've tried.
Here
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=4460&highlight=benechi#M4460
and here
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=31103&highlight=benechi#M31103
Neither post got more than 7 replies and they quickly sunk. Constructive idea threads don't get as much action as the rants.
Benechi
I'd buy the constructive thread comments if there hadn't been any to begin with. There have been numerous sticky threads asking for issues with DNA sampling, tissue issues, cloning, experimentation, your top 5 issues list, issues about resources......and on and on and on.
All these threads had issues posted to them. Many very good recommendations were made months ago. What did we get for our trouble? We get to play veterinarian and sweat shop worker to tailors and creature handlers. HavingBE bols work nowwasn't a BE fix either. It was a by-product of turning on the babies in the wild so creature handlers could tame them plain and simple.
The sticky threads you see now are just a repeat of issues asked about months ago. We have nothing left in usbut rants and raves. Unfortunately we're ranting at the wall. No one hears us except ourselves.
I know it's hard to believe otherwise, but that just isn't true.
Actually I think its more comforting to think no one hears us rant. If they can hear then we truly are being ignored.
Why aren't eopies mounts by the way? Someone looked at a duck and said "hmm I think I'd like to ride one of those."
I would like to add a few things in here... I have gone from one bugged professhion to the next... mainly because i am stupid and like what that profession stands for... ... let me sum it up for ya...
I have been...
BH 3444
Commando, Master
Smuggler, Master
CH, 4433, and I have taken it back up again since becoming a BE
BE 4434
As you can see... i ahve been just baout the most buged professions in the game... expt Chef...
What I am trying to say here is that... simply... Stuff is broke... While being a Commando, all we did was complain... and have the MP(master pistoleers) laugh at us... once we got a little bick me up.... they complained endlessly about how much dmg we did... and so on and so on... it comes down to this guys and gals... it will get fixed.. it will take time... but the more that this professions complains the quicker it will happen... Sony and the Devs are driven by profit... the more people wnating a fix... the quicker it will happen...
Anyhoo... I am in the service and have toi ge back to work.... be safe all ...
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Holy smokes! that is quite an assumption given our track record. You *must* be a noob, lol.
Sooty wrote:
I am going to make an assumption that the clone line changes, creature level revamp and CH changes are all going to have to be introduced at the same time.
Umm, first off, I have been around at least as long as you have, so I would ask for a little respect. Second, I didn'tsay that the changes would be happening soon, just that they are all going to happen at the same time - which could quite easily be 3 months from now (but could just as easily be 3 weeks, we simply don't know) - please learn to read before calling people names, k?
MissileToad, please go back and actually READ my post. I said exactly that - that the problem is not that BE pets aren't better than wild versions, but that there are wild pets that BE cannot make that are the best at each break point, except for some CL50 situations.
Same to you Spazzer. Its kinda pointless trying to have a discussion when people don't even read what I say, so this one is over for me. Catch ya on the next one, hopefully you two will actually read that one.
I logged in last night for the first time in quite a while. The updates took a while and of course the login locked up a few times but I did finally get in. I noticed a freaking TRILLION animals spawning all over the place now. I spent a few hours sampling critters and making eopies. There were piles of dead bodies all around my house.
I took those eopies I'd made and did the tame-train-release routine. In that time I nearly had enough creature handler points to train mounts on my own.150 eopiesgave140,000 creature handler points (9commands at 109 points each).While I was training the babies I couldn't help but thinkhow much easier and fasterit is to grind creature handler compared to crafting micronutrients. No critical failures either. Now I see why people asked me for tons of eopie deeds.
My point being the shaft job we've gotten has driven me to become a creature handler dabbler now.