Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Had yet another Chef telling me that 25K is 'a fair price' for crated BSNs...
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:03 am
#27
NancyJ wrote "We need to discuss ways in which this situation could be altered to be beneficial to both BE and chefs in the hopes that we can enjoy the kind of relationship we have with tailors."
I agree 100%, and if this thread had anything to do with that I would support it totatlly, but if you look through the thread its filled with comments like "All Chefs are just greedy", "Are all Chefs Idiots", "I told him where to go". I find very little if any posts here discussing how to fix the situation, and many many bashing a profesion. I thought these boards were supposed to be constructive, not insulting.
P_Day wrote
Finally i have a2 questions for you :
1. If i get the resources will you make me a 1000 use schem for 400+ brandy i feel 30k is a more than fair price for this, after all it doesnt cost you anything.
2. I think that A fair price for BE brandy is around 80k pr crate, how about i buy it from you at that price?
1. Sure if you brought me all that stuff, no problem. For the 10 seconds of time it would cost me to make that schematic for you I don't have a problem making you one contact Okin in game 
2. I sell my Brandy for a bit more then that, 125k per crate, I don't think you realize the cost of making the brandy either. There are though fellow chefs on bria that make their own BE products and can afford to sell that at that price, and I will happily refer them to you.
As for you examples in your post 1 is valid the rest are not. A chef getting a BE additive is not the same as a person wanting to heal buying stims. BE additives are a component for Chef foods, and a neccesary one to be viable. Your point about the Smugglers need AUK's and WUK's is a very similar situation. I have found its VERY easy to find an armorsmith or weaponsmith to make you a schematic for said materials. On the other hand there are many posts on this board about how a BE should NEVER make the schematic for a chef. This is the key difference. You guys decided you won't sell em for what a Chef wants to pay, so the chef gets all the ingredients themselves and wants to pay for a schematic, and you say that is unreasonable to.
As for everyone's greedy chefs brandy example, just for reference, here is what it takes to make a crate of that brandy.
1) 500 Fruit (these must be top notch, and can range in price if harvested .33 c/u to bought 20 c/u)
2) 500 Berries (these must be top notch, and can range in price if harvested .33 c/u to bought 20 c/u)
3) 50 Identical Trim from a factory crate ( Need to search out a Tailor willing to make these and pay their price)
4) 3750 Crystaline Gemstones added to the Trim to make the drink container
5) 1 crate of high end BE additives
6) 250 Water added to the crate of BE additives to make the food enhancments
7) 50 Identical Alcohol from a factory crate ( requires 500 total Cereal)
All this is to make 1 crate of brandy which = 1 sale
Not only is making brandy not easy, requires many factory runs, relies on searching out 2 other cooperative profesions, I personally use about 25 experimentation attempts to even make a schematic which at max can yield 19 additional crates of brandy.
Ok lets do some math you pay
20 c/u for the berries/fruit = 20,000 credits
50 identical trim = 10,000 credits 5k per crate
5 c/u for the cryatline gemstones = 18,750 credits
5 c/u for the water = 1,250 credits
5 c/u for the alcohol = 2,500 credits
Total cost before the BE additives at this pricing scale = 52,500 credits
With a minimum of 4 factory runs to make one crate, this is if you buy the BE additives and Trim already in crates.
My only point in listing what it take to produce 1 crate of brandy is for the BE's that have no idea what it take, it is only meant to be informative.
NancyJ
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:28 am
#28
Most BE's know exactly what it takes to make a crate of brandy, the issue is NOT the price of brandy itself, it is the disparity between the price of non-BE and BE brandy that is the issue, as stated earlier, BE additives can add 150k to the price of a crate of brandy yet the BE sees very little of this money. Is one extra factory run really worth an extra 125k for the chef?
What we really need to look at is why generally speaking, tailors are happy to split the profits with a BE to get tissues whereas chefs arent.
What differences are there in the two professions that cause this difference in attitude?
What we really need to look at is why generally speaking, tailors are happy to split the profits with a BE to get tissues whereas chefs arent.
What differences are there in the two professions that cause this difference in attitude?
NancyJ
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:04 am
#29
Its not the BEs adding 150k on to a crate of something that cost an extra 25k to make 
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:06 am
#30
Okin_Sin wrote:
On a side note, if you harvested your own meat and organics, you could still make a nice profit selling BSNs even at 15k a crate.
on Bria, I could easily sell top-drawr flora for 5cpu and meat for 20cpu, that means that the materials that go into a crate of BSN I could sell for 17.5k. So in other words, once I've gathered the materials, my options are: sell the materials for 17.5k per "crate"and incur no additional factory costs, and none of my time fussing with that, or go ahead and make the additives, for 2k/crate less. Hmm, decisions decisions, lol. That's ok though, you're right, we can eek out a very small positive cash flow doing this, which totally justifies the expenditure of the highest amount of skill points of any crafter in the game. Sheesh.
Oh, incidentally, if the chef sold his materials that went into a crate of brandy for 5cpu what would he get back? answer: 36k Should we start suggesting that chefs sell their brandy for 35k plus the cost of additives? lol Even Lozareth wouldn't be happy with that price.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 08:08 AM
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:42 am
#31
Well, brandy is your #1 seller is it not? And it accounts for a very large portion of your revenue does it not? But fair enough, lets talk about another of your top sellers. Let's talk about Bivoli. Bivoli is actually an excellent comparison because the materials neededare almost identical to what is needed in the supplement that goes into it.
Let's take the pricing of one of the most prolific chefs on Bria.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=141954#M141954
Now let's work backwards once again. 179k/crate. Those take Intelligent Nano nutrients, so let's subtract 35k from that price (which is what I charge for Intelligent nano), leading us to 144k/crate.
Materials needed for a crate of Bivoli:
91x25 = 2275flora and other machine-harvestables
20x25 = 500 meat
144k / 2775 = 52cpu!!!
If a BE were to use that pricing, a crate of BSN would cost: 104k
Dsabre wrote:
1) only using vasarian brandy as a benchmark for how "greedy" chefs all are.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 03:32 PM
Denizen_Nightstalker
Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:13 am
#32
50K A CRATE FOR BSN'S ...AND 65K A CRATE FOR HEAVY ADDITIVES ...
AND THEY SELL LIKE HOT CAKES
MilkToast
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:06 am
#33
My recommendation is to get a vendor and offer your tissues at a price you think is reasonable. If they buy them fine, otherwise just find something else to sell. I sure wouldn't put up with some idiot telling me what price I should be charging for my goods.
I'm a master BE/chef and producing tissues is both time comsuming and expensive. I have 4 factories running continuously making BSNs and INs, and the last carnivore meat I bought cost me 60 cpu. Additives are the gating factor for my food production. I can't believe any chef that has a clue wouldn't be willing to pay a fair price for tissues. If I could find someone that could produce mass quantities of the +88 BSNs and +118 INs I've been making, I would glady pay 50k to 65k a crate (maybe even a little more).
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:08 am
#34
Wow you guys are defenetly the most bitter profesion in the game! Congrats on that!
Why are people acting like I am the one that makes the BE's sell theiradditives at that price its not my fault or the chefs fault, its you BE's fault for ruining the market.
Even if chefs are making 100 c/u its their right to do so, the fact that you can't obviously makes your bitter, but its not the Chefs fault. Don't be bitter that Chefs are a proffesion that feeds the masses while BE is helpful to a few at best. It was YOUR choice to become a BE with this limited potential for customers.
Take a look at how much per unit weaponsmiths and armosmiths make, and you say Chefs are greedy? Does the Jealousy of the BE community never end? Just cuz a Chef chose a profesion that makes more profit then you, they are all greedy and bad?
Also BE additives are a COMPONENT, not a finished product, of course the profit margin will be less for a componet then a finished product. You are all comparing apples and oranges. Chefs market their foods to all different types of players and classes. You guys are just selling a component to Chefs thats it, nothing hard nothing special you have 2 ingredients and one line to max out ... big deal lol. Chefs have to market themselves and compete with many other chefs, add in the costs of becoming a 12 point chef, tons of wasted product on experimeting the FOUR LINES to make the best product, figuring out what to market to who, and what exaclty best suits their needs. You guys are doing by far the most SIMPLE TYPE OF CRAFTING IN GAME when you make a BSN, cry more for me. All you do is get quality ingredients, and any idiot can max out the ONE line you experiment on.
All I can say is too damn bad.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:21 am
#35
nah, that's my line when a chef asks me for a schematic, or a 25k BSN crate. I'd much rather make you guys buy an additional account and spend many many additional hours each week doing BE stuff then give that stuff away. "Too damn bad" indeed.
Okin_Sin wrote:
All I can say is too damn bad.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 07-12-2004 11:24 AM
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:27 am
#36
Well to any Chef on Bria that asked ArthurDentOnBria for some BSNs, Ill make you the schematic for free, no problem at all.
Actually now that I think about it, to show you BE's my good faith, for a limited time you bring me the Casks, Alcohol and Food additives, and I'll even make ya a FREE vasarian brandy schematic!
Message Edited by Okin_Sin on 07-12-2004 11:33 AM
PurpleWarrior
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:35 am
#37
Clippetty Clop Clippetty Clop, over the ricketty bridge went Big Billy Goat Gruff...
Okin_Sin wrote:
Well to any Chef on Bria that asked ArthurDentOnBria for some BSNs, Ill make you the schematic for free, no problem at all.
Dremvek
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:37 am
#38
"Even if chefs are making 100 c/u its their right to do so,"
And if BEs want to charge 100k Creds per crate, its our right to do so. The problem is the chefs whining about our pricing. Apparently you believe that the crafters can charge as much as they want and get whatever profit margin they want, as long as you are the crafter, and your components are still cheap.
If your class gets the right to whine to us about our pricing, we certainly get the right to whine about your pricing as well.
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:39 am
#39
I guess I just don't see how Chef pricing effects BE's in any way.