Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Poll: Selling schematics YES OR NO?
Reime
Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:03 am
#27
I don't have the recorces or the time to make a full schematic of componets. I could care less if I can make money by making them myself. I have never had a problem selling my goods, it is keeping up with demand that is the headache. I would much rather make someone a schematic than go out kill the creatures, harvest the meat, make the schematic, manufacture then item, then contact the person. I do that already. Lets cut to the chace and charge em for my time. I have a backlog of 10 right now, so taking 5 min to make a schematic is cake compaired to the days and days I have to spend making the componets. I could care less if I make more from the schematic than selling said schematic. When I do make a schematic for someone they provide me with everything, I just provide them with time.
aswex
Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:30 am
#28
Reime,
Good arguments. I wasn't clear about one thing as I meant to be. I realize I came across as implying that you should be obtaining the ingredients yourself. I actually pay other people to harvest flora and meat for me. The only 'work' I do is survey once a week for a new resource location. Regardless, I was actually trying to make the point that even though you are only spending5 minutes to make a schematic, you are still selling yourself shortby only charging 30k for those 5 minutes. I'd like to tell you what I would charge for a schematic and why, and I'd appreciate your evaluation.I would charge 264k for a schematic of BSNs. This price is 40% ofthe 660kI would charge for a full run of +80 BSNs (the lowest bonus I would make and my 'base price'). Assuming the chef pays 15 cpu for meat and 2 cpu for flora, this means that they would save no money compared to purchasing a full run of +80 BSNs from my vendor. Admittedly, that doesn't seem very fair, but reserve your judgment for just a second. The chef could be harvesting their own flora, which comes out to less than 1 cpu, and a savings of over 60k. The chef could also be harvesting the meat themselves, or having friends/guildies harvesting the meat, which would save hundreds of thousands of credits. Also, I charge 40% of a full run of +80 BSNs, even if the chef gives me ingredients that make +85s, and that would be a savings of over 300k. So, my schematic pricing ensures that I see a good profit, though it is less than my profit when selling the tissues myself, and the chef saves quite a bit too. It just doesn't seem right that you make 30k while the chef saves over 600k-1m.
Zadokk
Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:11 pm
#29
i dont make many tissues atm because I gather all the resources myself (not maximise profit, but because its rewarding 
) and i've just made my first full run of BSNs. I got +86 and currently they are on the forums at 1.8 million. So would I sell a schematic... demands, obviously Iwont get 45k per crate on my next batch of +86's but I might make a schematic for about 25k per crate. However, I wouldnt sell it to anyone other than a guildie or a chef at risk of resale.
) and i've just made my first full run of BSNs. I got +86 and currently they are on the forums at 1.8 million. So would I sell a schematic... demands, obviously Iwont get 45k per crate on my next batch of +86's but I might make a schematic for about 25k per crate. However, I wouldnt sell it to anyone other than a guildie or a chef at risk of resale.
TuskKiller
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:25 pm
#30
aswex wrote:Reime, at 30k per schematic, you don't make nearly as much money as you should. You'd have to sell 200 schematics to make what I make every week selling actual tissues. We're not talking ethics, Reime. We're talking money too. So not only are you not making much money, you're causing other BE's on your server to not make much money either.
You are always losing money by not selling schematics..... unless you get 100% of BE's to agree (which you will NEVER do).
I'm a BE now, but when I was hologrinding chef.... I was going to buy supplements.... but BE's wanted half the going rate of Brandy (when it first came out, very spendy), which was unreasonable since there is over FIVE times more work envolved as the chef than the BE in making BE Brandy. So I decided just to buy the schematics.... well, some people wanted the same amount of profit for the schematic as they would have made on actually nutrients (even tho they weren't doing the "work" of collecting the resources and bothering with factories)... so I found a Master BE that said he's make schematics for me..... asked him how much, he said FREE (since it didn't cost him anything and he nothing better to do while waiting for shuttles).... (I put that guy on my friends list.... and tipped him 50k per schematic.... he flipped out.... BE was his first profession and I doubt understood the economics of the game completely). Later, the guy who was trying "gouge" me lowered his price, I told him.... I had some guy making them for free and was tipping him 50k a pop (even gave him a free crate to rub his nose in it).... he offered to do it for 40k a schematic (down from 175k)..... He realized that as long as people could go to the BE's selling schematics for cheap, he was only losing money by not selling them also (cause I'd just move on and find someone who would and they'd make the money instead).
It would work against me too.... if someone was selling brandy at 25k a crate (which you coulld do and still make a profit).... no one would have bothered to by my 250k brandy (at the time)..... again, prices did lower because of competition.... If you don't sell schematics.... someone else will, so you're only giving them money that could have been yours for a minutes worth of work.
DrakoZenro
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:37 pm
#31
I would only sell/give schematics to close friends or guildmates.
CapricornONE
Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:30 pm
#32
no long drawn out post here...
I have no problem making a schem for anyone who took the time to collect the meat and the flora. I mean hell I'd rather not waste my factory, my time, and my money making something for someone else.. they can use their own factory/factories
Meplorium
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:52 pm
#33
Bonestein wrote:
WE NEED TO AGREE TO A PRICE...
Something very similar to this was taking place on the architect boards last year. The end was result was pricing was figured out in game. The problem is most BEs are not on these boards, they are all in game. Also people do whatever they please to do no mater how good your arrguement is or how much you wish them to fall in line. They will do whatever they please. So in the end we can aggree to a price on this board and watch all the other BEs in game doing something else. It is a waste of time. In your defense though I did started the whole sale brandy for 300k a crate back when the chef revamp came out. Brandy was indeed 300k a crate for a while. Now I've seen it go for less than half that as more and more people join the chef ranks and sell items at stupidly low prices. Prices continue to fall and BEs are part of this process, so they are going to get hit by falling prices as well. Just expect the market to change over time.
Whittany
Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:29 pm
#34
Ok, Guys lets take the life of a Chef again.. For me its like this.. Seeing about Factory Slots. I have to work with..
1) Cantina - 5 Slots
2) 3 Factory - 3 Slots
3) 2 Harvester - 2 Slots
Taking this into consideration I have to spend a Huge amount of time Shopping for supplies and I bet many other Chefs do as well.
This is what I spend on Supplies..
Lets take my Last post to help me out..
Trying to Make a max Batch of Brandy.
500 Alcohol (10k Wheat) - Factory Made
499 Casks (2 Trims & 75k Crystal Gemstones) - Factory Made
9960 Fruits - Harvest
9960 Berries - Harvest
500 Additives (501 BSNs & 7515 Water) - Factory Made
498 Brandy Made.
Wheat - 30,000 Credits
1000 Trim - 200,000+ Credits
75,000 Gemstones - 225,000 Credits (3cpu Per)
500 Additives - 350,000 Credits (700cpu per)
7515 Water - 22545 (3 cpu per)
Total: 827545 Credits.
This Will Give you about 20 crates (25) selling them at 100k each gives you 2 million credits.
Gives you a 1172455 Credits Profit. Not counting the Fruits and Beries because, thier prices are so different because all the people I buy from.
If I put Crates up 100k each.. I would never keep any in stock.. So I am forced to raise my prices to be able to keep a steady flow going.
Chef do make a Pretty Penny. But, its a Pain in the Butt to keep up with it.. Thats why many Chefs also give up the profession seeing how much a pain in the butt it is to keep up with it..
Bonestein
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:02 am
#35
I say yes, BUT.... all the Master Bio-Engineers need to agree on a price and yes the price needs to be rather high.. I mean do you ever see a chef selling brandy for less than 100k per crate? plus you get 20 crates per run on brandy due to the 500 cask limit with all the trim and 2 alcohols and what nots. Selling 20 crates of brandy at 100k each (and that is cheap) they make 2 million credits off somthing they only want to pay you 10k for?? whats up with that? Chefs can not make good brandy without good BE tissues. I think 500k is VERY resonable price for chefs to pay for a schematic (it doesn't matter if you bring the materials or not). They still make 1.5 million profit.
WE NEED TO AGREE TO A PRICE... If the cost of a BE tissue schematic was 10k, then the crates of brandy need to be sold at 20k not 120k. They don't lower there prices. Why should we? the price for a crate of brandy is pretty much standard in the game. The price of schematics need to be also. OR
WE NEED TO AGREE NOT TO SELL.....the problem with this is if you only sell crates of tissues.. you have to use 18 skillpoints toward a vendor so you can sell it. making it hard to master other professions along with BE.. I was master BE/Fencer and had my skills toward mask scent on the scout tree. The only way I could get a vendor is to give up those skills and move them to a vendor. I didn't want to make that sacrafice, so a schematic sell would seem right to me because I didn't have a vendor to put them on....not would I want to give up my fighting profession to save my arse from angry animals that I failed to get DNA from
if the developers decided to give the BE a vendor drop skill when you get to master like you should (since BE is the only crafting skill that has waste 15 skillpoints for novice artisan and 3 more to to move up the tree to get the vendor) All other Crafting skills require Novice Artisan so they do not waste the extra 15 skillpoints to get their vendor.
Bracci
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:11 am
#36
Bonestein wrote:
I say yes, BUT.... all the Master Bio-Engineers need to agree on a price and yes the price needs to be rather high.. I mean do you ever see a chef selling brandy for less than 100k per crate? plus you get 20 crates per run on brandy due to the 500 cask limit with all the trim and 2 alcohols and what nots. Selling 20 crates of brandy at 100k each (and that is cheap) they make 2 million credits off somthing they only want to pay you 10k for?? whats up with that? Chefs can not make good brandy without good BE tissues. I think 500k is VERY resonable price for chefs to pay for a schematic (it doesn't matter if you bring the materials or not). They still make 1.5 million profit.
WE NEED TO AGREE TO A PRICE... If the cost of a BE tissue schematic was 10k, then the crates of brandy need to be sold at 20k not 120k. They don't lower there prices. Why should we? the price for a crate of brandy is pretty much standard in the game. The price of schematics need to be also. OR
WE NEED TO AGREE NOT TO SELL.....the problem with this is if you only sell crates of tissues.. you have to use 18 skillpoints toward a vendor so you can sell it. making it hard to master other professions along with BE.. I was master BE/Fencer and had my skills toward mask scent on the scout tree. The only way I could get a vendor is to give up those skills and move them to a vendor. I didn't want to make that sacrafice, so a schematic sell would seem right to me because I didn't have a vendor to put them on....not would I want to give up my fighting profession to save my arse from angry animals that I failed to get DNA from
if the developers decided to give the BE a vendor drop skill when you get to master like you should (since BE is the only crafting skill that has waste 15 skillpoints for novice artisan and 3 more to to move up the tree to get the vendor) All other Crafting skills require Novice Artisan so they do not waste the extra 15 skillpoints to get their vendor.
Yes, I see chefs selling cheaper than 100k per crate every day.
It's YOUR fault you don't have a vendor. You chose not to give up your fighting profession. That doesn't mean that all BE's aren't willing to make the sacrifice in order to run a business.
I typically don't sell schematics, simply due to the fact that I make 20k per crate (800k per factory run) profit and chefs simply aren't willing to pay that much for a schematic.
JeCy
Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:42 am
#37
I would sell a schem any day,, probly for free if i wasnt busy.. How am i losing money?? im not supplying the stuff to make it.. I always keep my prices low,, and i do this by working with people trading schems. Aka im an armorer need reinforced cloth, im a smuggler i need WUK's,,
all ithis doesis help the community and getting more product out there soo people have better access to more well stocked vendors,, wow what a concept a stocked vendor.
I had a bio tell me he wouldnt make me a schem for a light food aditive for tietler noodles.. said he was an aritsan that made food.. well to this day his vendor has never had one aritsan food on it.. What did he lose that day... tons of bussiness,, our city does millions a day in bussiness and not a day goes by where someone asks me for a bio/ chef.. bio clothing..its hard to keep up with the demands,, have you ever even seen a chef vendor with more than 20 differenctitems on it??
i dont make it all nor do i want too, soo i send people else where to get what they need.. Just remember turning your back on that person can add up to more money than you can imagine,., guilds can be 50-100-200 people.. if that guy had any idea how much bussiness he lost im sure he would have just made the schem,., thinking he was gonna lose bussiness and money over some stupidtietler noodles for surveyors. ill bet you have never even heard of um let alone seen um on a vendor
i have a freind that lives in there town and there bussiness is droped in the last few months. Is it becuase of what he did to me,, or is that just how he runs his bussiness. I know since that day i have never sent another customer to that city,, i dont even use the shuttle there anymore.. the greed in this game has taken over in many aspecs, and i want sink into that relm.. . all i know is i never lost a dime making a schem for someone... in any profesion And i know for a fact it has brought me much more bussiness than i could have made buy making the product myself.
I will say though, if someone is a total jerk about it,, no mater if he is harassing my customers, or just pestering me, thats a different story,, soo far i have only had problems 3 times in a year,,, not bad : )
Je'Cy Dax, Master Merchant, 1 year
Groid
Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:07 am
#38
Seiryuu wrote:
"I'll tell you what - I'll exchange you a schematic for 1000 BSN's for a 1000 run schematic for Vassarian Brandy"
The smart chef would take you up on this deal in an instant.
You never stipulated that they would give you the addatives or its schematic, so all you have is a useless brandy schematic.
hmm.. a smart chef should do this, as brandy takes 2 identical alcohol from a factory crate, so maximum you can make is 499, assuming the first roll was of acceptable stats.The bio engineer gets a schematic that says 1000, but reality fools you.
I have given up looking for a bio engineer to make rich on the Bria server, your loss.The refusal to sell schematics.. for any price (its not the credits, its the storage issue) has forced me to make my own. the last bio-engineer got over 15million in a1 month period from me,and that was pure profit.. I provided ALL materials, ALL factories. Too bad for you, guess its just more credits for the poor chef.
Mokianna-Master Chef, Master Merchant-bria server
Zadokk
Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:18 am
#39
heh its funny, a chef just offered 1.5 million to make him a schematic, he will supply the res and he will supply the factory. seeing as i sell the BSNs at around1.5m I accepted. Sounds like a damn good deal to me so i accepted.