Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Bad News: new cloning and mounts.
as i said have 3 chars..please by all means give the doctor back there stims and give me back my pets which is my profession to do so!No ned to be angry, just tryin to say we all gotta just work with what we got. Have you seen the dancer/musician trees? Do youknow that now there is only one branch in our entire elite prof tree that is even worth it? Why have a wound tree if we dont heal wounds anymore? Why have a buff tree if a novice can buff almost as fast as a master anyway?
Anyway, If there are no pet specials, then how did my pet blind and stiun a mob the other day? Do you mean they can't be crafted in to pets anymore? I know I cant command it to do a special attack anymore, I think it might just be a random attack value now, with a chance to stun or whatever.
Dont say a BE can't make a better pet. They can. Wild pets do not have armor and do not hit for as hard. I know this for a fact even though I am not a BE. I am a CH and USE them and I can tell you what ones work better in combat. My lvl 54 BE mite tanked Necrosis way better than my lvl 70 wild tame. Armor really does a lot even if its only 30% damage reduction. Trust me, I'm paying attention. I understand you lost some profit abilities by losing non-ch pets. But you didn't answer my question on if you would want another profession to be able to make stimms that are better than yours and not need BE? Its the same thing for non-ch's that had better pets than the ch's who had to use sp to get them. Now non-CH level pets are just that A PET, not an attack dog. Not being able to make mounts sucks, but you still have other ways of making money. What is your % of profit from this suit I just bought that gave me +46 to melee/ranged D? What about these BE enhanced foods I have in my inv? How did the CH's make money before? Training? Yeah...big money there. At least now we have something we can actually sell. Like I said before, the CU sucked. But it is not the end of the world. Whining and complaining is not going ot get us anywhere. Hell, it was the people who whined and complained that got us this lovely CU to begin with. As for wanting to buy things from you, I have been looking for a BE to start going in to major pet production for the last 2 weeks. Let me know when your vendor is up. Make the pets like I said in the first post and you will have my business. If they cant be made with stun or anything anymore, thats just fine too. It only landed every so often anyway. There are even threads on this board with info on making good lvl 70 or close pets.
Sek, I don't mean any disrespect, its just that me and quite a few others are still looking for good CH BE pets, and all we see are BE's giving us the cold-shoulder. If I have said anything that is not true in this post let me know. I'm just saying things as I see them. I'm not trying to gripe on BE's I'm just trying to let them know that there are way more than 7 CH's out there and we are having a hard time finding anyone that crafts pets targeted for us.
SioBabble wrote:
Spazzers, my sympathy to your plight is EXTREMELY limited.
...
You still have the challenge of creating interesting, combat efficent pets for CHs, and you now have medical crafting as a means of support. StimDs alone should keep you in clover.
Imagine if you will a master doctor in pre-CU days making buffs and selling them to the combatants for 12K a pop. Imagine those combatants engaging in combat and suddenly receiving a message "Invalid buffs. Stats restored to normal." Imagine the fury unleashed on the unsuspecting doctor who made them.
BE's have been through this "pet validation" stuff over and over, and it makes people furious. In most of these events, there has been no way to determine whether a pet is valid or not until it is grown and called, usually out on the field, in a group, ready for combat.
As it is, longstanding master BE's have no hope of competing with respec'ed docs who took a single line of BE, but have their SEA's and resources that they purchasedin an economic level far above that of most older BE's. Furthermore, stims made with old components (which only the former docs have), are vastly superior to those made with new ones.
Chef tissue prices are lower than the cost of the resources right now, and many former docs have stockpiles of meat to use, if only they'll take two lines instead of one.
Worse yet, pet making was broken until the same time the Respec period ended. There was no way to learn whether it would work or not until the opportunity to change was gone.
In my opinion, it doesn't work. Natural pets are superior to BE pets in any way I have yet seen. I can see no reason for anyone to buy a pet from me. If I had the option to respec still, I would take it at this time. I can't see that I am useful in any way as a BE. My own plight is the same as most of the former BE's. I have one avatar--one. And I'm finding I am spending all my time in combat and on quests, because nothing I can do as a masterBE seems to be worth doing at the moment.
I bear no ill will against the former docs. They lost the crafting line, and they are just trying to keep from losing the resources and SEA's they had.
For the past two years, I have resisted anything that looked as if it might harm the CH profession, which I saw as not quite broken, but badly crippled.
I currently have over a million credits, but I earned it selling meat I killed as a low-level combatant for 70 cpu, because to use that meat in BE tissues would have been a horrible waste of money.
The only thing I have left is pet crafting, and I can't get near enough to high levelcreatures to sample DNA, even with Jawa beer and enhanced clothing. My combat level is too low at level 57, and my recog armor doesn't offer me any protection against the kinetic melee damage dealt by creatures. Master Ranger applied camo doesn't even hold among the reds.
/bows to Hylidex
well said hon *hugs* and i feel your pain.
Autumn
From this post, page 1 of this very thread....now I am confused because you just told me that BE's can't make pets with armor yet the armor eff stat wasnt added until AFTER the CU...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=98664
Health Reg: 655
Armor Eff: 4464
To Hit: 165
Defense V: 147
State R: 29.699999%
Critical Hit Chance: 3.8479998
Critical Save Chance: 2.52%
Aggro Bonus: 10.724999
Damage: 97-391
Torrgy I did a long post too but it wasn't in anger. Stupid lithium forum timed out.
Most of the things you are drawing on are pre-CURB. Post-CURB is a completely new ball game. This is why you couldn't find good animals on any vendors. Those stat-less animals you foundwere probably pre-curb, which is why you couldn't see the stats.
The post-curb DNA did not allow pet crafters to make anything worth crafting because of the 1000 fortitude and cleverness. We could make CL10 animals using this DNA, mixed with a ton of yard trash, or we could make CL167 animals with it. There wasn't much in between.
Why is it that creature handlers keep throwing out the statement "there are other ways to make money?" If I was playing this game to make credits I sure as heck wouldn't be playing a bio-engineer. I bought the game because I thought I'd be able to clone an army, like you see in the movies. I didn't take up BE so I could make medicines or nano-nutrients. I craft animals. My market, my bread and butter, and my sense of fun playing a video game came directly from crafting high end non-uber non-creature handler animals. Now, a creature handler can tame and train animals for free and sell them for a 100% profit, excluding the time it takes to grow them, which I know can be a pain but even so the profit is completely gravy. You can even take a mission, get paid to complete the mission, and walk away with a baby that can be sold, even trained as a mount. That is not new for creature handlers either. Creature handlers have ALWAYS been able to do this. I had a creature handler friend, who has gone on to EQ2 and CoH, that made a ton of money doing exactly that. This is what struck me so harshly about Sio's post. As if creature handlers suddenly got something handed to them they never had before.
I would never hope another profession would be borked just so I could feel good about my own profession or that I might be able to make monopoly money in a video game at the expense of someone elses fun. I'm still in shock I must say. And life goes on.
This animal could not have been crafted before publish 19. The DNA we had to work with did not accomodate these stats. We've only been working with publish 19 for a week now. Eventually, hopefully, you'll have even better animals to purchase. As it stands, BE's are still learning a profession we've been playing for the last couple of years. This is why you see some of the frustration you see.
Torrq wrote:
Here;s another awesome pet I wish I could find for sale....
Here's the best ive got so far
Health: 6855
Health Reg: 655
Armor Eff: 4464
To Hit: 165
Defense V: 147
State R: 29.699999%
Critical Hit Chance: 3.8479998
Critical Save Chance: 2.52%
Aggro Bonus: 10.724999
Damage: 97-391
Level: 68
Can never get it in that 70 range either 68 or 72 heheheh
from my previous posts
"The fact that non-CH have been able to call and control creatures that in the wild would be level 20 to 30 is a slap in the face of CHs who have to spend skill points to call similar creatures."
I agree it was a slap in the face but at the same time you are going to have those test everything and anything that was in game to make the best they possibly can and have the pride in doing so. This by no means is there fault.. its human nature.
not sure your pt.. it only saying .. yo i cant make it better then what a CH can get in wild?
"Im asking if you like other professions being able to do what you do as a profession better than you without having any skills in that area? That is why the CH community sees the lvl balance on pets as fair."
this is from posts you have done
"I have been looking for a BE to start going in to major pet production for the last 2 weeks. Let me know when your vendor is up. Make the pets like I said in the first post and you will have my business. If they cant be made with stun or anything anymore, thats just fine too."
make up your mind.. first you want balance.. then you want uber.. then you say BE can do better then wild.. yet i know wild is better.. *throws hands up* im done!
"Have you seen the spawns on Dath now?"
oh forgot this one.. let me know when a lvl 1 can do this LMAO
Well yeah spaz, its true we have had that ability...but with BE pets/mounts out there before no one wanted our tamed lvl 10's 
Now we can indeed sell them. I think most of the CH throw the money issue out there since paying for armor and such for a semi-combat profession like CH is expensive and money was always an issue for us. Woot...5k payout missions! Eh, only 500 more and I can buy that chestplate I need to survive. Taming pets could be a sold service as well....but again not too much money can be made there. "Hey, I can make your pet stand on one leg and dance...that'll be 50k."
Long story short, BE's got the shaft but still have a role in the game.
Doc's got the shaft but still have a role in the game.
CH's finally got the shaft removed from that uncomfortable spot it was jammed in to and sadly other professions suffered because of it. That's how a balancing pretty much works tho.
I'm sad to hear so many BE are not enjoying their professions anymore. I used to be a great warrior.....now I dance. Respec if you still have it and come join us entertainers....we got a big shaft with half our skill trees now not doing anything at all....but we still have a good time.
With regard to the pet size issue ... The wild animals were all the wrong sizes when we first went live with the CU. Do you all remember eopies the size of a house and mountain worrts that could fit under your coffee table?
I suspect the code for size / level is broken for BE pets and will be fixed. We were only able to discover it one week post publish 17 because that is the time it took for the pets to grow up. I don't think there is any nerf in the works. SWG ... WANTS to provide mounts to non-CH's. There was a ideas-thread in concepts not too long ago where they wanted to know what would make people USE creature mounts more often, and there were lots of replies.
If the powers that be really wanted to 'nerf' BE they would allow CH's to redeed pets - even wild ones - and put them on the bazaar. CH's have to work hard to get a sale relative to BE's - we can just put them on our vendors and walk away - they have to stand and convince people to buy them.
The important thing is that we know about it now and when it happens (BE animals only) and we can bring it to the attention of the people that will fix it.
Sorry if I'm being too much of an optimist here but ... well ... i just want everyone to be happy. Darn it!
Dor
Torrq wrote:
From this post, page 1 of this very thread....now I am confused because you just told me that BE's can't make pets with armor yet the armor eff stat wasnt added until AFTER the CU...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=98664
*snip
I could be wrong....you told me to prove it and here it is, this beat beats the pants off my Wild lvl 70.
And the poster said id only special were working?? So they are there just broken??
In RL "doctors" in traditional sense do not make medicine, they apply them. Yes, people with a PhD can make medicine, but that's not the kind of Doc we are talking about. I'm not talking about making stims in my question to you , that was an example. Ok, let me try again...take a deep breath and try to understand what I am asking....
Pre CU, A NON CH could call a lvl 10 pet that was better than most wild pets that a CH had to spend SP to call. You are a BE. BE's make food additives. Would you be upset if a Novice artisan could make better food additives than you? This is why I asked about the stims. Would you be upset if a novice dancer could make better stims than what you spent SP to make? Im not asking if you want to use them to make money, Im asking if you like other professions being able to do what you do as a profession better than you without having any skills in that area? That is why the CH community sees the lvl balance on pets as fair. Ranged is a godly like skill too. More than you can realize. Did you know that CH's can pull a single mob out of a large group by having their pet use an attack? Have you seen the spawns on Dath now? Do you realize how important this ability is?
Both sides are uninformed. Lets just keep this civil and try to help each other out.
Pets can't be crafted with armor. They have armor eff stats that replace the pre-curb resists you used to see. Armor eff is sort of a misnomer. It really means that an animal has resists at a certain level. It does not imply the animal has armor.
No, the animal does not have specials. The poster was saying if only specials worked, this animal would really rock, which is true. DNA does not show specials from the wild animal it is taken from, as it used to in the pre-curb days. Post-curb pets, as of right now, have no specials. My understanding is that this is being looked into and will fixed soon(tm).
- had to come back to finish the post. I hate when work interfers with my forum time.
Pre CU, A NON CH could call a lvl 10 pet that was better than most wild pets that a CH had to spend SP to call.
True. Pre CUa non-creature handler could buy a BE pet that was better than most wild animals.But then Pre CU a creature handler could also buy a BE pet that was better than most wild animals. The vast majority of theseBE CH pets made the level 10 look like complete wimps. I crafted routinelyCL19 animals with good HAM, resists and armor. You'll never find a non-creature handler animal like that. The CL10 argument has never held water.
Would you be upset if a Novice artisan could make better food additives than you?
We sort of already have this problem. A 0404 BE dabbler with a medical crafting SEA will make better food additives than a master BE. The master BE can purchase an SEA (lol I know, who am I kidding? A BE will never be able to afford one) but the master will only be as good as the dabbler. A master BE will never outcraft a BE dabbler with an SEA. The reason being, all the BE exp points come at 0004. This novice will never have to expend the skill points need to master BE and still outcraft the master. How would you feel if a novice creature handler could tame and call better animals than a master CH? What would be the point in mastering the profession? Would I be upset? I was, but the developers don't seem to care a whole heck of a lot what I think.
The pet level may look good from the surface but if you delve deeper you will see that post-CU non-creature handler animals are pretty much pointless with the exception of mounts. They don't hold aggro any longer which was their primary function. That's gone. But, we still have mounts, or at least we did right up until a few days ago. That one saving grace has been plucked away as well. And this is a good thing...how again?
Message Edited by Spazzers on 06-02-2005 04:36 PM