Bio Engineer Archive

Considering how hard it is to even find some creatures (Mutant Rancs and BMBQ's), let alone sample them. I think it is ridiculous that we lose our dna on critical failures. Since I started working towards MBE right after release I remember when we didn't lose the DNA. I would even settle for a compromise of losing some samples. Maybe it could be determined at random out of the five slots.

I remember when we use to get to keep the dna, that was nice. I think the way to 'fix' this issue is to couple it to the storage issue. When we sample an animal we get a stack of DNA samples rather than just one. This would make getting DNA aless time consumingprocess and at the same time take away the sting of losing that MR DNA since you got 5 more in the stack you got from a single sample.This would even open up the door for very short factory runs of some dna templates and clones.

If only our revamp was done right.

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Devero wrote:

I DONOT support the suggestion to eliminate Critical Failures. There should Always be asome risk - even for the loss of Ubber samples.

Between me and my GF, we have all crafting professions except DE covered. Losing the time and quantity of resources on a lareg structure is extreme, so we support the architect loophole. But not for the other professions.

I am a master weaponsmith. Try telling your customer that you just had a crit failure on a Laser Rifle using his hard-won Krayt Tissue. Yes, it sucks.. but it is part of the risk. It makes those really nice pets and really nice weapons all the more valuable. And that's the main point. They should be.

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First off I would like to state that I think the idea of crit fails is a completely unoriginal idea that does nothing more then further SOE's "time sink mentality"...

I dont think a "master" should crit fail on items that are commonly made... perhaps a chance of crit fail when one tries to craft something with loot... like kraty for WS or the secret research data for BEs... Then MAYBE that could add to the game... but, in general, all crits do is waste time and resources.

If the only way SOE can make crafting rewarding is by creating a "danger" that I loose hours of potential game play in a single click then there is some SERIOUS creative thinking problems in the SOE brass.

Why we should NOT have crits:

It could easily take just as much time (if not more) for a MBE to collect rare DNA as it takes an architect to mine the required resources for a PA. Please note that we dont get to drop a harvester for DNA, walk away from it, and then empty the hopper... EACH and EVERY DNA piece has to be gathered by hand... so a week of a BE's time is much more intensive then a week of a architect's time. Plus, "quality" of DNA matters in BE... In architect, unless you are making a high end harvester, you can put a$$ materials into the template...

DNA is not equal to krayt tissue as krayt tissue is an optional ingredient that isnt required and can be provided by the player base at large. DNA is not optional when making creatures and can only be collected, by hand, by BEs.

Addinginsult to injury, the fact is we can crit once on assembly, any time during the exp in the template, and then again on the final assembly... that is 11 times right there (assuming there are 9 exp pts... cant remember the exact amount)We can also "crit" anytime we sample from our clones to do multi-gen sampling... then we repeat the 11 step "risk of crit fail" process.

Also, we cannot make a schematic for any of our creatures.... it isnt like we can make one "uber pet" schematic and then mass produce them 1000 times.

These points alone should justify some sort of "re-vamp" on crits as it concerns BEs. I could only imagine the out cry if WS had to "hand sample" all their resources risking life and limb, to make one weapon that could not be "mass produced" via a factory, risking a crit fail up to 11 times... Oh yeah, their really good weapons that everyone expects would involve them "re-sampling" their original weapon (risking it outright destruction) in hopes to add it to another generational weapon that they would have to risk another 11 crit fails... and again, this weapon could not be mass produced...

Bottom line:

BErequires anunprecedented amount of game time to make one creature risking not only their lives but hours (if not days or weeks) of their time risking the complete destruction of such creationtwicewith the additional risk of 9 crit fails/fails that can ruin a template... Since we cannot mass produce pets we have to repeat this process for each pet... multi-gen sampling adds another dimension to this whole process.

Pets are NOT that powerful as to warrant this kind of risk. As a TKM I can kick the living sh*t outa any BE pet without breaking a sweat... I can kill stuff in PvE 1000x faster then a MCH alone could... Pets, if anything, are nothing more then a roleplaying tool that amounts to a "road bump" in PvE and a hiccup in PvP:

That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it

Message Edited by SomeUser on 06-03-2004 09:45 AM

Critical failures on the initial combine to make the template is fine with me. Painful, but okay.

Losing the resources upon a critical failure to make a pet is alright as well. Losing the template at this point is not. It is a case of double jeapordy.

This would be a compromise between two fail chances and no chances at failure. To me it seems like it would be fair to us while maintaining the dev's desires of possible loss for the crafting system.

If I'm going to push this issue, I doubt we'll get a full concession - so the question is - do we want to keep our DNA or our templates?

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NancyJ wrote:
If I'm going to push this issue, I doubt we'll get a full concession - so the question is - do we want to keep our DNA or our templates?

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Templates teamplates termplates. A loss of DNA on the initial combine is ok. It sucks, but its ok. But to have that hard to get DNA, combine it, do our experimenting to get the exact (or close to it) stats we want, and then LOSE all that work when combining the template with the skin....that is what needs to be addressed.

We just want what the architects already have.

My biggest issue with the chef foods and drink is they dont even come close to completely negating the risk and you can make very few items before you're full.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

I'll add one more thought to this. If that cake that the chefs make actually worked to eliminate (or at least greatly greatly greatly) diminish critical failuresthis might not even be an issue for us. Buy a crate of that stuff, when you are making your biggest masterpieces and reduce your failure rate say from 5% to .5% or whatever, and I think everyone would be happy. Doesn't appear to work that way however.

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Oh that would be just grand... I get to depend on chefs to make me over-priced food with my additives they dont want to pay me for so I can make creatures while still risking a crit (albeit a much smaller one).

That also would play hell when making multi-gen creatures as you would not only go through your food quickly you would also tend to get full after a few creatures.

Cant say I would want this

Yea, that's the other thing, it's just flat out stupid that it only lasts for one roll. Guzzle some port, put 2 points into experimentation, experiment, guzzle more port, add another 2 points in, experiment, ready for the assembly? Eat cake, hit assemble, then eat more cake and assemble the template. Grrr, not well thought out at all, especially since after all that effort the results are so underwhelming.

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NancyJ wrote:
If I'm going to push this issue, I doubt we'll get a full concession - so the question is - do we want to keep our DNA or our templates?

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I agree and I'd say keep the template. My problem has never been that there is the chance of the critical fail, just that it's there twice. If I remember correctly, in the last Top 5 that's basically what I was pushing for - getting rid of the risk on the clone combine. I'd be happy to have this step work like Architects.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

Yea, that's the other thing, it's just flat out stupid that it only lasts for one roll. Guzzle some port, put 2 points into experimentation, experiment, guzzle more port, add another 2 points in, experiment, ready for the assembly? Eat cake, hit assemble, then eat more cake and assemble the template. Grrr, not well thought out at all, especially since after all that effort the results are so underwhelming.

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Wasnt criticizing your idea and I hope I didnt come across that way

1. I'm a little sensitive when it comes to anything that involves chefs who like to use our additives to 2x-3x their food profits while demanding that we basically give them their additives at cost or give them free schematics.


2. There just is too many crit fail chances for a BE.. the risk isnt worth the reward... not even close.. The pets we make are just not that good.

**If** the DEVs removed one of the chances to crit(either the DNA template combine, or the final creature skin combine) and did something aboutour additives schematics so they cant so easily be x-ferable I would love to see the idea you put forth implemented... that is have their cakes reduce the crit fail to .5.

That reminds me, I've been wanting to ask this question for a while now but keep forgetting..

When I eat the cake prior to creating the DNA template it doesnt "use" my cake on the DNA template combine... That is, the cake mod is still showing in my mod window... Not until I make the final combine does it remove the cake from my window...

Anyone else getting this?

Am I getting the bonus for both the DNA template and the final combine or am I only getting it for the final combine???

Is this a bug or is it working as intended?