Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA Storage
1of2alts
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:16 am
#14
Seiryuu wrote:
- The blood samples are stackable, with no serial number.
- Blood is converted to DNA on a one-for-one basis.
I think if we are going to propose these two things then we need to talk about the process for getting the blood sample.
Option A: We get 1 blood sample per 'Sample Blood' action. Just like getting DNA now. There is no adjustment to the success/failure agro/death rates.
Option B: We get a random number of blood sample with each 'Sample Blood' option. Think of it like hand sampling resources, except were talking about much lower numbers (possibly 2-6 each time). If each blood sample equals 1 DNA sample, then there would have to be an adjustment to success/failure agro/death rates. This is beacuse of the fact that we are now getting multiple DNA samples with each action (increased risk for an increased reward)
In both cases experince is granted during the blood sampling since it is the first step in DNA sampling process. No experience is granted for extracting DNA.
Thoughts?
Seiryuu
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:38 am
#15
I would prefer Option A.
Under Option A, blood is an intermediate that allows us to stack samples without really changing the system in any fundamental way.
Under Option B, your one sample of blood might be five sample or it might be zero. The failure rates would need to be adjusted for both obtaining the initial sample and getting samples from the blood, or else we suddenly have 'bonus' samples.
The sampling rates as they exist now are pretty good to me, which is why I prefer not mucking with them or adding another point in our crafting chain that might result in failure.
Under Option A, blood is an intermediate that allows us to stack samples without really changing the system in any fundamental way.
Under Option B, your one sample of blood might be five sample or it might be zero. The failure rates would need to be adjusted for both obtaining the initial sample and getting samples from the blood, or else we suddenly have 'bonus' samples.
The sampling rates as they exist now are pretty good to me, which is why I prefer not mucking with them or adding another point in our crafting chain that might result in failure.
1of2alts
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:41 am
#16
Seiryuu wrote:
I would prefer Option A.
Under Option A, blood is an intermediate that allows us to stack samples without really changing the system in any fundamental way.
Under Option B, your one sample of blood might be five sample or it might be zero. The failure rates would need to be adjusted for both obtaining the initial sample and getting samples from the blood, or else we suddenly have 'bonus' samples.
The sampling rates as they exist now are pretty good to me, which is why I prefer not mucking with them or adding another point in our crafting chain that might result in failure.
I like Option A too, but wanted to include B for discussion puposes 
1of2alts
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:42 am
#17
I hate not being able to edit 
Also, Option A provides the least amount of difference from the current system, so it *should* be easier to code.
Wokka
Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:50 am
#18
Ok I have a few different suggestions for the DNA storage problem.
- A special backpack that can be worn, and can only hold DNA samples. Samples would not automatically go into that pack but would have to be manually moved into it after sampling. Just like you would regular inventory items as you loot them. It would add another backpack schematic to Tailor. Or could be part of a BE specific quest to obtain a schematic for the tailor to make the finished item.
- Another tab on the Datapad. We have waypoints, POI's, Data, Schematics, and when you get novice BE, you get a DNA tab with maybe 100/100 storage capacity.
- A DNA storage item (furniture) for your house.
- A DNA storage compartment for your droid.
- Special clothing, like a Lab Coat, with DNA storage slots.
- A DNA storage cabinet in your crafting station. (actually it would help ALL crafting professions to have one of these, especially now that vendors have a rather limited capacity.) This would allow the Dev's to throw a bone to the community after the harsh limits put on merchants.
I got a million ideas, but I think just a glimmer of hope from the Dev's would be for them to tell us "yes we know we have severely limited bio-engineers DNA storage, and we'd like to change that in a fair way".
Wokka-wokka
GMANHNC
Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:49 pm
#19
In reading all the post from the Mater Minds me a fan using moron offers the following:
At MBE we would gain the ability to takte stackable Blood samples that are NOT (1) Quality specific, because they are blood samples they CANNOT be stored in our packs for long because they will go bad (2). Thus the necesity for a droid (3)with freezeer storage compartment(25-100 units), and a freezer(4) at home(100-300 units).
The Blood samples would then be sampled and would generate random sample stats(5) and quality(6). The samples can only be out in the air for say 1-3 hour(s) (7)total every time you pull the sample out the sample deteriorates down to 0 after all the time expires kind of like the lighting fixtures.
1) Not Quality specific, this adds no derogatory, most of us would instantly destroy the AA Blood Sample and continue until we had our fill of VHQ.
2) This adds a bit of a challange to the sampling instead of increased agro.
3) Freezer compartments would have to be limited storage as one of our previous posters mentioned we can store up to 5 droids in our pad.
4) The Freezer at home should add significant maintanience cost to our home, or independantly and must be a different trpe of furniture or some of the crazy's might just get 250 freezers, I would say max of this new type of storage unit, should be 3. Other proffessions should get different storage units, that are equaly as industry specific.
5)Stats all seem to random now, I have seen several creatures that when examining the creature it may have had a higher health bar than one of it's pals, but then upon sampling it comes out different, so this seems to already be teh case.
6)Quality I mentioned earier, I think this adds to the risk of the blood sample instead of the straight dna sample.
7) The time should be an aggragate for all non-storage time, this would possible make blood samples a pain, or may force us to have the droids out, which I think adds starwarsyness to the class.
Also I think the blood samples should list avrg. stats & specials for the examine and of coarse should be named from what ever creature they are taken. The average stats would give you an idea of what this creature will look like if dna is extracted.
At MBE we would gain the ability to takte stackable Blood samples that are NOT (1) Quality specific, because they are blood samples they CANNOT be stored in our packs for long because they will go bad (2). Thus the necesity for a droid (3)with freezeer storage compartment(25-100 units), and a freezer(4) at home(100-300 units).
The Blood samples would then be sampled and would generate random sample stats(5) and quality(6). The samples can only be out in the air for say 1-3 hour(s) (7)total every time you pull the sample out the sample deteriorates down to 0 after all the time expires kind of like the lighting fixtures.
1) Not Quality specific, this adds no derogatory, most of us would instantly destroy the AA Blood Sample and continue until we had our fill of VHQ.
2) This adds a bit of a challange to the sampling instead of increased agro.
3) Freezer compartments would have to be limited storage as one of our previous posters mentioned we can store up to 5 droids in our pad.
4) The Freezer at home should add significant maintanience cost to our home, or independantly and must be a different trpe of furniture or some of the crazy's might just get 250 freezers, I would say max of this new type of storage unit, should be 3. Other proffessions should get different storage units, that are equaly as industry specific.
5)Stats all seem to random now, I have seen several creatures that when examining the creature it may have had a higher health bar than one of it's pals, but then upon sampling it comes out different, so this seems to already be teh case.
6)Quality I mentioned earier, I think this adds to the risk of the blood sample instead of the straight dna sample.
7) The time should be an aggragate for all non-storage time, this would possible make blood samples a pain, or may force us to have the droids out, which I think adds starwarsyness to the class.
Also I think the blood samples should list avrg. stats & specials for the examine and of coarse should be named from what ever creature they are taken. The average stats would give you an idea of what this creature will look like if dna is extracted.
1of2alts
Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:00 pm
#20
I don't agree with the blood samples having any kind of 'shelf life' for a couple of reasons:
- It adds unnecessary complexity to the DNA sampling process change. A big thing to keep in mind is the easier our idea is to impliment the greater chance it has of being considered. Dev time is more precious than gold, lets not waste it with unnecessary coding.
- It adds unnecessary restraints to the BE profession. Our current DNA does not have a shelf life, whymake things harder onourselves?
droid327
Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:08 pm
#21
Does anyone know what the word is on backpacks counting as one item or each item inside a backpack counting against the limit? If its the former then you can still store most of your DNA on your vendor, it'll just be a hassle to take off the bag, get the DNA and then relist it.
metalbard
Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:29 pm
#22
I like the blood idea, however, Do to the Devs Need for Shrinking the about of Data stored in the items database I suggest that blood samples remain stackable and that we can use multiple types of Blood samples to make one DNA temple. Lets say we get a Piket sample and pickets have a high ham. Then we get a Nuna blood sample and they have a DOT attribute. Then we have Quakers Blood and that adds aggressiveness to the sample. In this manor blood types would only have 2-3 attributes that it had to keep a data in and when we pull blood samples we get off one sample enough to make one DNA template that way we can mix and match or just use the blood we had collected to make a DNA Template. In this manor we would have a stackable item (the blood) and be better able to serve our customers buy being able to build them the type of pets that have the attributes they are looking for. This would be easy to implement on the DEV level because they could use the same matrix that they use for meat. Just as meat changes from shift to shift the Blood should also do this. From a dev aspect it’s just adding new “Meat” to the game. And we extract from this “Meat” and there is where the randomness and all the other special attributes come from. I am a new BE a 1/3/2/1 so my experience is very limited compared to those of you that have been doing this forever. But this would help with the storage issue we face ad a new element for us to make a better product and help reduce space in the database.
Metalbard
Former Master Arch
Former Master Smuggler
Former Master Medic
Novice Chef
Novice BE
Radiant server
Suenr
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:06 am
#23
Wokka wrote:Ok I have a few different suggestions for the DNA storage problem.
- A special backpack that can be worn, and can only hold DNA samples. Samples would not automatically go into that pack but would have to be manually moved into it after sampling. Just like you would regular inventory items as you loot them. It would add another backpack schematic to Tailor. Or could be part of a BE specific quest to obtain a schematic for the tailor to make the finished item.
- Another tab on the Datapad. We have waypoints, POI's, Data, Schematics, and when you get novice BE, you get a DNA tab with maybe 100/100 storage capacity.
- A DNA storage item (furniture) for your house.
- A DNA storage compartment for your droid.
- Special clothing, like a Lab Coat, with DNA storage slots.
- A DNA storage cabinet in your crafting station. (actually it would help ALL crafting professions to have one of these, especially now that vendors have a rather limited capacity.) This would allow the Dev's to throw a bone to the community after the harsh limits put on merchants.
I got a million ideas, but I think just a glimmer of hope from the Dev's would be for them to tell us "yes we know we have severely limited bio-engineers DNA storage, and we'd like to change that in a fair way".
Wokka-wokka
The devs have given a hint, and it was pretty much a negative on more storage, especially storage for DNA because it is very database intinsive. That is why the blood idea is one that many like. It not only solves out problems, but it solves that database storage problem. It allows us to keep blood which stacks and uses very little information instead of DNA which doesn't stack and has a lot of information per sample.
I like the idea of making blood sampling just like DNA sampling is now and then having each blood sample yeild one DNA sampled when you extract the DNA from it. Blood without quality would be the most database friendly, but with the quality on it would be nice, and wouldn't be that much worse on the database since there are only seven quality types and masters only get three types. Either way would be much less database intinsive than the current method, and both would help greatly with DNA storage problems.
droid327
Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:11 am
#24
quaker blood adds aggressiveness? lol i thought quakers were all pacifists =) but no, being able to hand-make our DNA samples would be against the entire idea of creativity in crafting by combinations of existing sets of DNA.
I like the idea of blood storage as creating a "samplable" item, a la pet deeds. Rather than increase the difficulty/chance of aggro, I think we should be able to craft "blood sampling devices" or "blood storage devices" for something simple like 10 inorganic 20 water. If necessary maybe include a master artisan or DE component or something to give them some content. Each device would have charges, and every blood sample attempt would use up a charge. If successful, we'd get our blood sample which we could extract DNA from like pet deeds, from 0-6 or 7 or so. Storage problem solved, new content for BEs, and the balance issue of tripling our sampling to risk ratio is somewhat assuaged.
-Zocau-
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:22 am
#25
1of2alts wrote:
Dev time is more precious than gold, lets not waste it with unnecessary coding.
All I can say is that if their time is so precious to not be wasted with unnecessary coding...then why are they making these proposed horrid merchant changes. I see no benefit from this. I don't recall hearing a single person complain about the amount of items on a vendor. I find it all completely unnecessary coding.
Zadokk
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:59 am
#26
-Zocau- wrote:
1of2alts wrote:
Dev time is more precious than gold, lets not waste it with unnecessary coding.
All I can say is that if their time is so precious to not be wasted with unnecessary coding...then why are they making these proposed horrid merchant changes. I see no benefit from this. I don't recall hearing a single person complain about the amount of items on a vendor. I find it all completely unnecessary coding.
there are some posts on the merchant forum from merchants complaining that allowing people to keep the full use of their vendors while no longer keeping merchant rendered their profession useless. Think about it, how would the CH's feel if we could make CL10 pets better than the ones they can tame in the wild? Exactly.
...
Although to some extent, we can 