Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Are we as BE getting the worst share of the pie??
Novock
Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:40 am
#27
Numen says:
"The BE doesn't have the control over the situation. It is up to the chef on how they want to get the tissues."
LOL see there what were we thinking anyway. I learn something new in this game everday. It wasn't even our choice to start with, how dare we discuss what we sell our tissues for. May we plead with our chefs "master.. i meant no disrespect... please don't beat me. Oh 40 crates of 87 BSNs.. yes master.. right away...." Man you're a riot.
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:52 am
#28
Numen wrote:
Mmmm Pie
No other profession(talking about chef) requires a major component from another profession.
I guess you need to define "major", but off the top of my head: doctors, armorsmiths, architects, and chefs require components from tailors, droid engineers require components from armorsmiths and master artisans, architects require components from master artisans, doctors require components from combat medics, tailors require components from us, and of course we requiquire components from doctors.
What I think is unique about our components is that they are the only ones I'm aware of (aside from the droid engineer-master artisan relationship) where our own components are not useful to us in our own products, and I think that is the whole enchalada right there.
RancorPoker
Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:12 pm
#29
Arthur summed it up for Bria quite well. It's basically how it is at this moment. So, my BE toon has discontinued making chef tissues unless they're ordered in bulk. Tailor tissues, presently, are a good source of income. And pets as well. Once the devs fix clothing so that they stop working at 0 condition, I'm willing to predict that the demand for BE clothing will dramatically increase due to the removed functionality of long dead clothing. Tailor tissues will be in high demand. Tailors will be:
The next chef
The next FOTM crafting profession.
And BE will be:
BE still
Again a FOTM crafting profession.
Now if I could scrounge extra skillpoints for fieldwear 2 so I could sell already made crates of BE Reinforced Fiberplast Panels so tailors can skip that step.
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:16 pm
#30
I'm very skeptical of the 0 condition fix helping tailors much. It won't hurt us, but won't help us tremendously is what I believe. Regular clothing has always outsold "BE clothing" for me, and I don't see that changing. The reality is, that the most valued "mods" by most players, are the ones they get from skill tapes and looted items, and the hottest selling clothing (BE modded for "buffers", and un-modded clothing for entertainers) is not subject to much if any decay anyway, thus there will be very limited repeat sales on those items due to decay. Sales might shoot up big the first week or two as some people see their items poof or desire to buy "spares", but after that it will be business as usual I believe.
Oh, and if you need help with making RFP let me know, perhaps I can help.
Meplorium
Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:53 pm
#31
Spazzers wrote:
I spent a couple of minutes browsing the chef forum. I made no comments. Just wanted to see what my customer's concerns are. I read a number of posts about whether a chef should master BE or just go for0404 BE. The majority is go for master of course but that wasn't what struck me the most.
Many chefs are recommending people purchase a second account and mastering BE with it. The mindset is the BE could make tissues and hunt for other needed resources. In the end the chef saves money. Why does that strike me so? Think about it. Someone would spend real money every month in order to save make believe money in a video game?
Oh those crazy chefs.
There was a poll done a while back where they ask how many accounts poeple had. Nearly as many had two as had one. A second account gives you more options, especially if you like to craft and hunt. Also it is $15, which is pocket change really. I spend more than that on a trip to a 2 hour movie. How muchentertainment does an extra account provide?The real reason behind all those questions this week, those questions are quite rare actually, is that everyone is making plans to open up a second character on their one account with the new jedi stuff. I expect that soon these kinds of threads on the BE forum will go away as most chefs have an avenue to get tissues made cheaply enough. I am not saying that is a good thing, just a thing that is coming.
Now the fools that will pay $100 for 5 mil of in game credits are the crazy ones, but that happens a lot.
ChefVomit
Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:52 pm
#32
I have to say that I am frankly amazed at some of the comments in here.
I have no idea what things are like on some of these servers, I only have experience with 3 servers. Maybe I have just been lucky. I mastered BE the other day, and I have been in here reading the BE forums, quietly trying to understand what the trials of the profession are. I had picked up BE originally because I am a Master Chef, and my wonderful BE of months dropped it to do PvP. Great guy. We had a perfect working relationship. We never argued about price or anything....mainly I think because he was levelheaded and understood fundamentally what being a BE meant:
BE's are the ONLY crafting profession that ONLY CATER TO OTHER ELITE PROFESSIONS.
Thats it. The overwhelming majority of our sales and services will be sold to other Masters.
That can be tough. Almost all of your services are wholesale, so you have to accept the fact that no matter what you WANT to sell them for, they will NOT sell unless the price allows the other master to make a good deal of money off the product.
But what really amazes me is the level of animosity publicly displayed towards Chefs in this forum. Having been a Chef for some time, a tailor before that, Medic, Weaponsmith, and now a BE....I have gotten to know the forums very well on this account and others. But I have not encountered the level of direct condescension that I encountered here. It is not from all BE's, in fact it appears to just come from a core group of them who either 1) Have the absolute meanest Chefs in the entire SOE universe on their server....or.....2) Are just bitter people in general. But what I DO know....is that I have not run into the broad spectrum hatred towards another profession on any other forum over the last 13 months and 4 accounts.
Perhaps I am completely wrong. Maybe its just that I am entirely different. If a BE in the past quoted me a price I didnt want to pay, there was no complaining or whining on my part. It was simply, "Well thanks for your time". And that was it. And I have experienced it from the other end as well. When I originally offered +25/3 use Bivloli for 100k a crate (well below the market value at the time), I had a couple Docs sending me tells and screaming my prices were too high. I just respond that I am sorry they feel that way, and then /addignore. I mean these are DOCS telling me that I charge too much....not exactly one of the professions that comes to mind when you think of poor. But I certainly do NOT judge the entire Doc community on my server, let alone the entire profession class, by the actions of the several nooblets who behave like children. So when I see a few of the BEs in this discussion that may have been up past their bedtime trying to tell me what ALL Chefs are like....it rubs me the wrong way because it is obvious they do not know what ALL Chefs are like.
I have no problem with BE's whatsoever on my server. They all tend to be intelligent, academic, mature, and fair. Sure, there are exceptions. I had a BE once try to tell me that he would still have to charge me 70k a crate for INNs even if I PROVIDED ALL THE INGREDIENTS. LOL. But once again, I simply said thank you, and moved on. Eventually I found an extremely competent BE, who typically sold his crates for 50k, but would sell them to me at 45K if I purchased more than 20 at a time. PERFECT! Everyone wins! The Chef gets a fair price, and his stuff in bulk, and the BE gets guaranteed sales.
BE's DO have it rough. There is no doubt about that. We have the single worst grind I have ever experienced, although the DNA sampling can be kind of fun and tension-filled if you take your time with it and try to get some of the higher end animals just for fun. LOL.
I think that there will always be some degree of tension between the Chef and BE communities, simply because Chefs rely on BEs to the extreme. No other crafting class is like this. The closest would be a tailor, but that is laughable in comparison. A Chef will go through as many BE tissues in a single week as a Tailor will need for an entire month or two. That high level of dependency means that we are NOT in complete control of our own financial success. Our talents mean nothing without the components that allow us to showcase them. We need what you have, and we need it in BULK. And for newer Chefs especially, it is extremely hard to come up with 500k upfront just to make 10 crates of Brandy. Why? Well because a new chef also has to buy all his starting resources....GOOD ONES....multiple medium and heavy harvesters, quality tools and station, houses to work out of. For most new Chefs nowadays, there simply is not a market for sub-par food, so they HAVE to find a way to get some decent additives in order to start out. The first 4 weeks of any Chefs life can be extremely difficult financially. Perhaps this is where some of your experiences have come from.
I am very proud to be a BE now. It is most certainly an elite profession, and there are numerous ways to go about making money and passing the time. An extremely varied profession indeed. I certainly dont want you to think that I am indicting the entire BE community....I am simply stating that I believe there is some fairly broad generalization going on about Chefs, their attitudes, and what they are/should/can do. If you find that the Chefs you deal with are arrogant little punks, dont deal with them. Chances are though, that there are several other Chefs out there who would be happy to work with you in a mutually beneficial manner. Being a BE appears to be very much about forging long-term relationships with other Masters with whom can deal with fairly and consistently. Communication is the key.
I am very much glad to be here, and the stickies you have in the forums helped me tremendously in getting started up the BE training. Having finaly gotten there I feel a great sense of accomplishment, and an even higher degree of respect for the profession than I had before. If I have offended any here, that was certainly not my intention. I am simply speaking my mind on a matter that does concern me, since I am now officially on BOTH sides of this debate.
So salutations, and I look forward to working with all of you.
Regards,
Vomit
I have no idea what things are like on some of these servers, I only have experience with 3 servers. Maybe I have just been lucky. I mastered BE the other day, and I have been in here reading the BE forums, quietly trying to understand what the trials of the profession are. I had picked up BE originally because I am a Master Chef, and my wonderful BE of months dropped it to do PvP. Great guy. We had a perfect working relationship. We never argued about price or anything....mainly I think because he was levelheaded and understood fundamentally what being a BE meant:
BE's are the ONLY crafting profession that ONLY CATER TO OTHER ELITE PROFESSIONS.
Thats it. The overwhelming majority of our sales and services will be sold to other Masters.
That can be tough. Almost all of your services are wholesale, so you have to accept the fact that no matter what you WANT to sell them for, they will NOT sell unless the price allows the other master to make a good deal of money off the product.
But what really amazes me is the level of animosity publicly displayed towards Chefs in this forum. Having been a Chef for some time, a tailor before that, Medic, Weaponsmith, and now a BE....I have gotten to know the forums very well on this account and others. But I have not encountered the level of direct condescension that I encountered here. It is not from all BE's, in fact it appears to just come from a core group of them who either 1) Have the absolute meanest Chefs in the entire SOE universe on their server....or.....2) Are just bitter people in general. But what I DO know....is that I have not run into the broad spectrum hatred towards another profession on any other forum over the last 13 months and 4 accounts.
Perhaps I am completely wrong. Maybe its just that I am entirely different. If a BE in the past quoted me a price I didnt want to pay, there was no complaining or whining on my part. It was simply, "Well thanks for your time". And that was it. And I have experienced it from the other end as well. When I originally offered +25/3 use Bivloli for 100k a crate (well below the market value at the time), I had a couple Docs sending me tells and screaming my prices were too high. I just respond that I am sorry they feel that way, and then /addignore. I mean these are DOCS telling me that I charge too much....not exactly one of the professions that comes to mind when you think of poor. But I certainly do NOT judge the entire Doc community on my server, let alone the entire profession class, by the actions of the several nooblets who behave like children. So when I see a few of the BEs in this discussion that may have been up past their bedtime trying to tell me what ALL Chefs are like....it rubs me the wrong way because it is obvious they do not know what ALL Chefs are like.
I have no problem with BE's whatsoever on my server. They all tend to be intelligent, academic, mature, and fair. Sure, there are exceptions. I had a BE once try to tell me that he would still have to charge me 70k a crate for INNs even if I PROVIDED ALL THE INGREDIENTS. LOL. But once again, I simply said thank you, and moved on. Eventually I found an extremely competent BE, who typically sold his crates for 50k, but would sell them to me at 45K if I purchased more than 20 at a time. PERFECT! Everyone wins! The Chef gets a fair price, and his stuff in bulk, and the BE gets guaranteed sales.
BE's DO have it rough. There is no doubt about that. We have the single worst grind I have ever experienced, although the DNA sampling can be kind of fun and tension-filled if you take your time with it and try to get some of the higher end animals just for fun. LOL.
I think that there will always be some degree of tension between the Chef and BE communities, simply because Chefs rely on BEs to the extreme. No other crafting class is like this. The closest would be a tailor, but that is laughable in comparison. A Chef will go through as many BE tissues in a single week as a Tailor will need for an entire month or two. That high level of dependency means that we are NOT in complete control of our own financial success. Our talents mean nothing without the components that allow us to showcase them. We need what you have, and we need it in BULK. And for newer Chefs especially, it is extremely hard to come up with 500k upfront just to make 10 crates of Brandy. Why? Well because a new chef also has to buy all his starting resources....GOOD ONES....multiple medium and heavy harvesters, quality tools and station, houses to work out of. For most new Chefs nowadays, there simply is not a market for sub-par food, so they HAVE to find a way to get some decent additives in order to start out. The first 4 weeks of any Chefs life can be extremely difficult financially. Perhaps this is where some of your experiences have come from.
I am very proud to be a BE now. It is most certainly an elite profession, and there are numerous ways to go about making money and passing the time. An extremely varied profession indeed. I certainly dont want you to think that I am indicting the entire BE community....I am simply stating that I believe there is some fairly broad generalization going on about Chefs, their attitudes, and what they are/should/can do. If you find that the Chefs you deal with are arrogant little punks, dont deal with them. Chances are though, that there are several other Chefs out there who would be happy to work with you in a mutually beneficial manner. Being a BE appears to be very much about forging long-term relationships with other Masters with whom can deal with fairly and consistently. Communication is the key.
I am very much glad to be here, and the stickies you have in the forums helped me tremendously in getting started up the BE training. Having finaly gotten there I feel a great sense of accomplishment, and an even higher degree of respect for the profession than I had before. If I have offended any here, that was certainly not my intention. I am simply speaking my mind on a matter that does concern me, since I am now officially on BOTH sides of this debate.
So salutations, and I look forward to working with all of you.
Regards,
Vomit
Kevm
Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:51 pm
#33
ChefVomit wrote:
But what really amazes me is the level of animosity publicly displayed towards Chefs in this forum. Having been a Chef for some time, a tailor before that, Medic, Weaponsmith, and now a BE....I have gotten to know the forums very well on this account and others. But I have not encountered the level of direct condescension that I encountered here. It is not from all BE's, in fact it appears to just come from a core group of them who either 1) Have the absolute meanest Chefs in the entire SOE universe on their server....or.....2) Are just bitter people in general. But what I DO know....is that I have not run into the broad spectrum hatred towards another profession on any other forum over the last 13 months and 4 accounts.
Well it has alot to do with how the chefs treated BE's shortly after the Chef revamp. honestly what you've read here is nothing compared to what was said about BE's on the chef forums, or were said here by chefs.
That level of animosity lasts a while.
Message Edited by Kevm on 09-09-2004 11:53 PM
ChefVomit
Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:03 pm
#34
Well that may very well be the case. I have only frequented these(Chef and BE) boards over the last couple months. I did read back quite a ways because I hate asking questions that have already been answered in a dozen other threads. But I did not read back all the way to the Chef revamp.
And once again, perhaps my experience has just been vastly different from others. I have had almost no issues at all with BE relations on Starsider. There seem to be several of them, and they are professional and couteous, and I pay them well for their services. At least I did until I made BE myself.
Well I for one hope that we can find a way past this trouble. Having played from both sides now, I can say that these two professions should be best friends. THey both have the ability to make each other rich, and to have a long and sustaining mutual appreciation. Both are hard working classes, and both have their challenges and issues. I hope over time we can put these animosities to rest.
And once again, perhaps my experience has just been vastly different from others. I have had almost no issues at all with BE relations on Starsider. There seem to be several of them, and they are professional and couteous, and I pay them well for their services. At least I did until I made BE myself.
Well I for one hope that we can find a way past this trouble. Having played from both sides now, I can say that these two professions should be best friends. THey both have the ability to make each other rich, and to have a long and sustaining mutual appreciation. Both are hard working classes, and both have their challenges and issues. I hope over time we can put these animosities to rest.
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:28 pm
#35
Chefvomit,
If you had been following this forum for the last 6 months you'd see why there is so much animosity. I'm not kidding when I say the most immature, obnoxious trolling I've ever seen here is by chefs coming into this forum and antagonizing us. Even the chef correspondent came in here, got into an argument with one of the regular forum members, and proceeded to stalk him, writing derogatory things about him in his (the BE's)galaxy trade forum and such. It's absolutely unreal some of the crap that's gone on here. Not all chefs are like that. And in fact some of my best in-game friends either are or have been in the past, chefs, but there sure are a lot of "bad apples" in there too.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 09-09-2004 11:09 PM
ChefVomit
Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:54 pm
#36
Well I cant speak to that, since you are completely correct in assuming that I have no experience with those matters. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with the current Chef correspondent.
I am a Chef, and I am a newly developed MBE. I have not posted anything of a derogatory nature about BEs in the Chef forums, nor do I have any reason to. Like I have said, my experiences have almost all been positive.
I think part of the problem is the attitude that some players bring to this game. This game is fairly unique when it comes to an entirely player-driven economy. All items are NOT created equal, and every individual seeks his own path to fortunes (that is IF his path includes the pursuit of said fortunes). I think perhaps that there are several players in this game in general that expect they can wish the economy into being what they WANT it to be, rather than taking the time to determine what it actually is and how to survive within it.
I have had new Chefs ask me how in the heck I manage to make money off of my food. After some investigating, it turns out that they are buying all of their resources from vendors. That right there inflates a Chefs cost by 1000% sometimes. They havent taken the time to consider the beenfits to harvesting resources for themselves. At the same time, I have met BEs who do the exact same thing. Sure, they can make +117 INNs, but they will cost 80k per crate. Why? Because they bought the resources to make them instead of harvesting them. In each case the individual is failing, and in each case some simple education and communication can usually solve the problem. In the case of that BE, I explained - at his request - why I would not be able to purchase from him at those prices. He did understand, and although we were not able to reach a business agreement, we at least parted on good terms.
So I offer that maybe we start small. If you can accept that I am a Chef, and still accept that I might actually be a fair individual....then that is at least a start. I want this to happen because I do love being a Chef, and all of you on this forum are in a position to teach me a great deal about the BE profession (which I am certainly not an expert in yet). Anyway, I am here to stay, and hopefully to contribute and help in any way that I can.
Regards,
Vomit
I am a Chef, and I am a newly developed MBE. I have not posted anything of a derogatory nature about BEs in the Chef forums, nor do I have any reason to. Like I have said, my experiences have almost all been positive.
I think part of the problem is the attitude that some players bring to this game. This game is fairly unique when it comes to an entirely player-driven economy. All items are NOT created equal, and every individual seeks his own path to fortunes (that is IF his path includes the pursuit of said fortunes). I think perhaps that there are several players in this game in general that expect they can wish the economy into being what they WANT it to be, rather than taking the time to determine what it actually is and how to survive within it.
I have had new Chefs ask me how in the heck I manage to make money off of my food. After some investigating, it turns out that they are buying all of their resources from vendors. That right there inflates a Chefs cost by 1000% sometimes. They havent taken the time to consider the beenfits to harvesting resources for themselves. At the same time, I have met BEs who do the exact same thing. Sure, they can make +117 INNs, but they will cost 80k per crate. Why? Because they bought the resources to make them instead of harvesting them. In each case the individual is failing, and in each case some simple education and communication can usually solve the problem. In the case of that BE, I explained - at his request - why I would not be able to purchase from him at those prices. He did understand, and although we were not able to reach a business agreement, we at least parted on good terms.
So I offer that maybe we start small. If you can accept that I am a Chef, and still accept that I might actually be a fair individual....then that is at least a start. I want this to happen because I do love being a Chef, and all of you on this forum are in a position to teach me a great deal about the BE profession (which I am certainly not an expert in yet). Anyway, I am here to stay, and hopefully to contribute and help in any way that I can.
Regards,
Vomit
Kevm
Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:05 pm
#37
ChefVomit wrote:
So I offer that maybe we start small. If you can accept that I am a Chef, and still accept that I might actually be a fair individual....then that is at least a start. I want this to happen because I do love being a Chef, and all of you on this forum are in a position to teach me a great deal about the BE profession (which I am certainly not an expert in yet). Anyway, I am here to stay, and hopefully to contribute and help in any way that I can.
I think you'll find most of the regualrs on this forum to give the benefit of the doubt unless they see otherwise. The posts you've made do not give me any reason tobelieve you would be one of the 'bad apples'
Jnome
Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:00 am
#38
Hmmm sounds like the real problem here is called Interdependency. Curse SOE for making my mutil player online game so interdedpendete on other players and there greedy professions.. 
I've seen flavors of this arrgument (No pun intented) on many a a profession boards. The real problem I think comes in when a player who can and does make a profit at what they produce start looking over the profits of other professions (There customers) and tells themselfs Hey!! That's not fair!!! Yes I made money but they made even more!!!
Great thing is...
Nothing Stops you from becomming the Chef that makes that profit selling brandy to the hunter...
The Hunter that sells the BE's and Docs the meat for 100cpu..
The Doc that makes and uses the buff packs..
The Fighter that makes the 1 million credit per buff...
The Armormsith that makes the profit Selling the armor to the fighter..
The TheArcitech that makes the profits selling the mines to the Armorsmith..
And it goes on..
I can't make a profit Selling Advance designs of BE'ed Clothing. So I am free to pickup BE to enhance my clothing at a lower cost if I wish to make such items and reasoanble prices.. Each profession has to deal with questions like this.. Its how the game was setup.. Sorry there isno Single player mode
Kevm
Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:06 am
#39
Jnome wrote:
The real problem I think comes in when a player who can and does make a profit at what they produce start looking over the profits of other professions (There customers) and tells themselfs Hey!! That's not fair!!! Yes I made money but they made even more!!!
Actually I don't agree. The real problem is when a player starts complaining about the prices of their components and/or demanding they make them cheaper or just provide schematics, even though they are making 10 times the profit of the person they are complaining about.