Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: CH's are revolting
To be honest i dont think the changes will affect BE's that much.. well at elast not me. Currently im not limmited by demand in any ways.. my bottleneck is in the supply part of the equation. I expect to still sell plenty of stim packs. Tissues is unlikely to be greatly affected, upcomming mounts should give me plenty more to do if i'll even bother.
I think the CH changes will do realativly little to our profession, personally i think what will determin our future will be a) the changes to the other combat classes defensive bonuses b) the cloneing changes if/when they get here
If the defensiv bonuses to the other combat classes prove to work well, that will cause a lot of people to drop CH, and the cloneing changes could resault in CH's actually wanting out pets because we can offer costum made creatures better than anything they could get in the wild. Just like a Master bounty hunter is willing to pay a lot extra for that little extra damage that seperates a super scatter pistol from a good scatter pistol, i dont doubt for a second that a Master CH will be willing to spend a lot to get the best pet out there
Graeme, I think you are missing one important part of the changes, and that is the reduction of any sort of pet out to anyone other than an MCH to 1 - this means mounts, biological pets, droids and faction pets. If you don't think this is going to a serious effect on the use of bio-pets and mounts (also counting the reduction in levels from 15 to 10) I believe you are sorely mistaken.
Is this a doom-and-gloom set of changes for BE? No, but to think it will have any positive effects worth talking about is to not really appreciate the entirety of the proposal. This will, in my opinion, havea significant impact on the entire mount business.
Pretty sure, since CH are losing any ability to call multiple pets until master, losing the previous ability to get +1 at management 3 and a third at master. In fact, in TH's admittedly somewhat confusing post, he states that the +1 at master means a MCH can then call 2 pets, e.g. a mount and a combat pet - very strong implication there that only MCH will be able to call more than one pet in any shape of form.
I really think this is going to have a significant impact once it becomes common knowledge.
I don't see this affecting my BE business much either way.
I've never had much demand for my products from CH other than Pet Stims, and I don't think that will drop off much, they may only have one Pet out, but it will definately need more healing, since the pet rotation trick won't be as effective.
While SOE is again hauling out the Nerf Mallet, I personally think they are going at this all wrong. The problem isn't non CH haveing CL 15 pets, it's the fact that whoever decided what CL a mob is, simply doesn't have a clue about how armor and resist's should affect CL level. For example, my non CH pet of choice is the Rock Beetle, and whoever thinks that should rate at CL 13 is simply delusional. Armor and Resists, not only "effectively" add to it's HAM numbers, that affect grows even stronger when you add heals into the equasion.
For any who don't get how this works, I can assure you that I can keep a Kusak in a battle far longer than I can keep a Bolma in the fight. While the Bolma "should" be the better tank, it won't be, since I can pump both Pet and Regular stims into both the Kusak and the Bolma, and since the Kusak will take less damage over time than the Bolma will, he ends up being the better tank pet. Yet SOE totally ignored this fact, and rates the Kusak at 16, just one level higher than a Kahmurra or Coward Gurreck... Want to try an experiment some time, against a Fambaa or something, and see how many Kahmurra or CG in a row it can drop, in the same amount of time it take it to incap one of my Kusak? Willing to do that test fairly, with only matching Pet stims, and matching Stim B's, I'd still bet it would be 3 to 1 or worse for creatures that are 'supposedly' only 1 CL level different.
Vorgus on Bria
Scoty,
Yes, I realize that there will be a major effect on us. But, still, the BE with minimal CH skills is still the logical best souce for non-CH pets, and with a little more CH skills, even for mounts. Sure not everyone will be buying both, because of the inconvenience of having to make a camp to change from one to the other. But I still thing there will be enough people wanting one or the other to keep us busy.
Vorgus,
Don't worry. It sounds like armor will no longer be an issue. The upcoming nerf should eliminate it from anything under CL 30. That'll mean a lot more dead pets.
Haggis
HaggisofAhazi wrote:Orlander,
Creature Handlers are crafters. The crafting formula looks like this:
Raw Material + Processing = Finished Product
For Creature Handlers the equivalent is:
Wild Animal + Training = Tame Animal
CH's themselves are the harvesters, just like us BE's harvest DNA samples. And yes, they are also a combat class. People tend to see them as one or the other, but they are really both.
Haggis
This is exactly why CH should not be able to sell creatures. That domain should fall on BE alone.
I don't see architects running around with "combat homes" haha.
CH selling creatures is crippling our sales.
Though I've had a half dozen people ask me if I can make them pets since I put the BE tag back on a week ago.
Muff said:
This is exactly why CH should not be able to sell creatures. That domain should fall on BE alone.
How do you figure? Tailors and Chef's can use their own end products just like CH's can. I don't see you asking to take their sales capability away.
Let's face it, BE's were never meant to sell to end users to begin with (until Pet Stims came along). All we were meant to do issell enhanced components to other crafting professions:
Raw Material + Enhance Components + Processing = Enhanced Finished Product
We are not supplying either the raw materials or the processing. CH's, Tailors and Chef's do that. Theirs is the right to make the final sale (after suitably marking up the product to cover the price of the enhanced components we sold them).
Haggis
HaggisofAhazi wrote:Orlander,
Creature Handlers are crafters. The crafting formula looks like this:
Raw Material + Processing = Finished Product
For Creature Handlers the equivalent is:
Wild Animal + Training = Tame Animal
CH's themselves are the harvesters, just like us BE's harvest DNA samples. And yes, they are also a combat class. People tend to see them as one or the other, but they are really both.
Haggis
This arguement annoys me to no end. There is one important difference between you and everyone else. Everyone else has to put money into the economy in order to get money out. Whether it be buying resources from other, factory maintence, or running harvestors, theres a cash sink involved. A CH has no cash sink. All they do is pull from the economy offering no cost items at all profit. That isnt right.
And before you say it, dont even think of using that same old tired arguement that time is your resource. Time is a moot point because whether its you hunting for the baby to tame, or me either hunting resources or tracking them down for sale, we all have a time sink.
Tilen
Scylla
XpNsVe: "This is exactly why CH should not be able to sell creatures. That domain should fall on BE alone. I don't see architects running around with "combat homes" haha. CH selling creatures is crippling our sales. "
then in forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=27529 he berates someone for being negative:
"God, that is so negative. You are disgusting. Why do you play at all?"
and finally, earlier in the same thread above:
"My charactor is making MILLIONS and your sitting in the forums complaining?"
For any more wisdom and consistency I'll quote the signature:
"Reduced Vitality = Reduced HAM...... isn't that like a wound? Doesn't a Vitality pack heal vitality and in-turn heal the reduced HAM?"
-----
XpNsVe thank you for the humor. Least I'm not as ruthless as your other admirers and fans.
The Griefer
Tilen wrote:
"A CH has no cash sink."
What do you call Pet Stims then? Or starport fees to travel all over the galaxy looking for uber petsso they can come back and sell them? Or regular stims used to heal up when a tame goes bad? You should be familiar with that last one. It's the same thing thathappens to you when a pet you're sampling goes aggro.
Time is not a resource to CH's, it is a drain. There are only a limited number of spaces available in a CH's datapad. It takes days to grow a pet to the point that it's useful. If it wasn't for that drain they'd be pushing them out in greater numbers.
Just because an arguement annoys you doesn't mean it's not true. Also, next time you flame make sure you know your audience. I was a BE long before I was a CH.
Chill,
Haggis
Bio-Engineer/Creature Handler/Pistol Specialist
HaggisofAhazi wrote:
Muff said:
This is exactly why CH should not be able to sell creatures. That domain should fall on BE alone.
How do you figure? Tailors and Chef's can use their own end products just like CH's can. I don't see you asking to take their sales capability away.
Let's face it, BE's were never meant to sell to end users to begin with (until Pet Stims came along). All we were meant to do issell enhanced components to other crafting professions:
Raw Material + Enhance Components + Processing = Enhanced Finished Product
We are not supplying either the raw materials or the processing. CH's, Tailors and Chef's do that. Theirs is the right to make the final sale (after suitably marking up the product to cover the price of the enhanced components we sold them).
Haggis
I have to disagree here. Looking at our skill tree, the manual ect. it seems pretty clear to me that the intent of the BE class was to be the "pet crafter" to the CH's "pet user". The bad design of the clasess has really resaulted in a mess between the BE and CH profession. 2/3rds of the BE skill tree is dedicated to makeing creatures, yet we have only one real class as a potential costumer.. and to add to that mess.. that one class is the only combat oriented class that is able to aquire thier "weapons" without the need of a crafting class.
The dillema is pretty clear. Removeing the tameing abbility from the CH class would ruin it, tameing creatures is (at least imho) the most fun and challangeing part of that class. On the other hand that leaves BE's in the mud. The only solution i can see is to ensure that BE's can make creatures that a clearly superior to what CH's can tame in the wild.
That way CH's would have the option of tameing themselves, but then accepting that they woudlnt have the best possible creature, or paying a BE to get the best possible. It would still put the CH's in a much better situation than any other combat class, but it would at least give the BE class some use.