Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: BE CL Problem/CH Niche Answered.
ShinigamiDuo wrote:
Hrmmmm.... nerf BE I say, if the devs get to ruin our profession, they should get to ruin yours too. All's fair, after all.
I have been a CH since the first week of the game, a master since August. I will never drop those CH skills. Its my profession as well as yours. 
BE is not to blame for the devs getting the initial implementation of CH hopelessly wrong. BE is not to blame for the subsequentCH/creature rebalance. BE is not to blame for the uberness of some of the other combat skills in the game now.
We should concentrate on getting professions fixed and balanced rather than crying about the good old days...
I guess I can see the problem with the concept where the CHs can't keep up with the BE market. In that case, you've really crippled the BEs.
But I think Pluto is on to something; we need to increase the BE/CH interaction somehow.
What if BEs were allowed to sample pets from their datapad? Then CHs could sell pets to BEs for sampling. I'm thinking there would have to be a fixed number of samples to make it worthwhile for the BE to pay for the cost of better creatures. A problem I see with this though is that BEs rely on creatures that don't produce babies.
Another option would be for BEs to use babies as skins for those that aren't in the BE templates. Or to have some advantage in using babies rather than templates?
Just a couple of ideas....
Pluto9Moon wrote:
*snip*
We have no need to tame our own pets. Not when it become so much harder to survive without the BE pets. I shrugged BE pets off for the longest time. I got some as a present from my friend. I have not used a wild tame since. The fact is our light armor was stolen from us and without it the pets are just too weak. So again where does that leave us? No niche. No role. And soley a class to get griefed by other players and harrassed because we were once gods. But oh how the mighty have fallen. We cannot even get the BE's to allow us a little fun. The perfect system is out there (granted it may not be mine but it is close). There must be a compromise some day. Or like Vert stated someone is going to win and someone is going to lose and it all goes to hell in a handbasket shortly after. At least 5 more MCH quit this week. So you need to sit back and reflect what are you selling, to whom and why do they want it. You more than anyone probably know your market.
I am just another frustrated CH with no reason why. If every BE is CH only to train their own pets then we narrow the field down a lot for potential sales. The truth of the matter is I foresee the consolidation of BE/CH to allow for the DE's to get use of Combat Droids. It is something I personally fight against, but without a real niche I am not certain I would fight very hard.
Blaming the BE's because you're not having fun boggles my mind. The bio-engineering profession did not remove your fun. Removing the bio-engineer's fun is not going to make your profession better either."Hrmmmm.... nerf BE I say, if the devs get to ruin our profession, they should get to ruin yours too. All's fair, after all." This is a perfect example why we are in the situation we're in. Everyone screams nerf. If combat droids with medium armor and 40% resists to everything, available to everyone playing the game, were to come out would you be blaming the DE's because of your lack of fun. Just imagine every noob fresh off the shuttle, cdef pistol in hand, followed by a combat droid with medium armor. That's a nice pet with no skill point requirement. Pretty much negates novice creature handler completely. So we scream nerf DE. Its never ending.
I still don't understand why you say creature handlers have no niche. There are a number of crafting professions that require animal resources. Every single bio-engineered product requires some sort of animal resource. Some of those resources are very specific such as dathomir insect meat. Last time I looked a creature handler had scouting skills and dathomir insect meat is worth good money. You get paid to run missions and you get a resource you can sell. If you think about it in those terms you have a steady, long term income. I can tell you right now BE's never have enough animal resources to fill those chef and tailor tissue orders not to mention pet stims and animal crafting. So tell me again who is dependant on whom?
Many of the complaints I read are regarding creature handler and PvP. It was stated long ago by the devscreature handler was not visioned as a combat profession. Its a support profession. I know many creature handlers who use their skills in that capacity andare having a blast. They're also wealthy people. If you want to rule in PvP you can combine creature handler with a truecombat profession and do well.
I'm probably peeing in the wind here but blaming bio-engineers for the state of your profession is pretty short sighted.
Spazzer,
I will say it point blank. I DID NOT BECOME A CH TO BE A CRAFTER. It was stated even longer ago by Holocron that we were to be combat. Resources are DEPENDANT on the the SCOUT PROFESSION.
OK. I am not blaming you directly. But the CL system is broke. I tried to offer a system that might fix it. The result of the proposal is BE stated point blank NO. We would rather have a broke fun system than a fixed one that might give up some fun. I am in no way suggesting you be nerfed. But if there must be a nerf I have always stated no non-CH should use pets at all. They cost me points so others should have to buy into the pet system as well. That too makes our class worth something. That does not nerf you directly. Right now the only reason to have novice is if you are going all the way.
You keep talking about your friends who craft. That is one example of how it works. 80% of us on the forums I would guess live in the field. I have lived on Dant since the legendary nerf patch. I have been off the planet no more than 20 times. The frenzied graul baby is there somewhere and now we know the Enraged Defender is as well. But I tell you as others have when combat CH's are gone it will only be those of you left who think that CH provides you a better escape route to your harvesters than any other combat profession. That is laughable. TKM. Pistoleer. Rifleman. Are all better options at surviving in the wild than CH. A non CH commando with flame cone1 under your currently broken pets allow for survival. The slippery slope of it all is there is no reason for any combat type CH to remain CH. We can just use your broken pets.
I would hope that you would see some better fix might be out there. Yeah it might remove some of your "fun" but it does not have to nerf you. Unless of course by fun you are suggesting the sales of invalid pets to a captive market is fun.
Castillo,
I am sorry show me where I stated that I want 15K HAM AR2 pets. I must of missed typing it and you are using some psychic powers to infer that it is something I meant to say. The nerf we undertook was somewhat deserved. But what we did not need is everyone crying nerf to the point of invalidating our profession.
I have and will in the future attack those I believe are wrong. My attacks on Vert are very public knowledge and for the record in recent weeks I do believe Vert has done the best possible job at maintaining a forum presence. If I were be I would call for the removal of your now AWOL Correspondent. I am vocal. I do not sit around and get knocked down by anyone. Vert is doing what the vocal asked, even if it doesn't make a difference in most people eyes, the apppearance of solidarity is stronger than you believe.
What I do not find constructive Castillo is the fact that noone else has an operative system. I am trying to offer one I believe could be funtional. Hell give the Rangers the abillity to tame. Give it to the BE themselves. You want all the fun take it. But make the damned pets work so we can go back to not playing a guessing game when we crack your deeds. This is going to continually happen until there are upper limits set for ham, damage, speed, resists, and armor (possibly specials). I am not just challenging anyone to say no to the system I proposed. This is meant to be a starting point. But just saying "NO, it takes all the BE fun away" seems to be selfishly motivated as to not want a fix at all in the name of fun. Noone else has come up with an alternative proposal from the BE camp. Devs cannot make it work. But saying the fix is soley on the shoulders of the Devs lacks any real motivation to see it fixed. But fantoq brings up the point of offering this as an alternative system for skins you do not currently have. I will tell you if it were the alternative you would find more people bringing wild to you to be slapped with booster shots than you would have time to create your own fun in the current clone system.
Hell whenI made antibiotic resistant E. coli in genetics lab I thought that was fun too. If what you are doing in your clone process is antyhing like the real thing then I do not doubt it can be fun. Except that DNA once expanded looks more like snot that anything remotely cool. That part was really not all that.
Look here it is in a nutshell. I will not defend what I proposed any longer. It was there, no BE wants it. CH seem interested. You deny it and win at all costs, like was foretold. I will sit and wait for Devs to fix you. Since it means fixing CH in the process..........I will keep waiting.
WEEEE, I stirred up the BE's LOL I was actually being facetious in that nerf post, but you DID ask for it 
Look, the argument about 'well, your niche is gathering resources!' I'm sorry, I can do equally as well gathering resources for you if I dropped all my CH and just kept Hunting IV, CH gets NO additional harvesting ability. Hell, you get better from Rangers than from CHs, but if you said that then we might not sit down and shut up, meekly accepting that our lot in life is to serve the almighty BE with our credits and our harvesting.
Pluto9Moon wrote:
Castillo,
I am sorry show me where I stated that I want 15K HAM AR2 pets. I must of missed typing it and you are using some psychic powers to infer that it is something I meant to say. The nerf we undertook was somewhat deserved. But what we did not need is everyone crying nerf to the point of invalidating our profession.
I have and will in the future attack those I believe are wrong. My attacks on Vert are very public knowledge and for the record in recent weeks I do believe Vert has done the best possible job at maintaining a forum presence. If I were be I would call for the removal of your now AWOL Correspondent. I am vocal. I do not sit around and get knocked down by anyone. Vert is doing what the vocal asked, even if it doesn't make a difference in most people eyes, the apppearance of solidarity is stronger than you believe.
What I do not find constructive Castillo is the fact that noone else has an operative system. I am trying to offer one I believe could be funtional. Hell give the Rangers the abillity to tame. Give it to the BE themselves. You want all the fun take it. But make the damned pets work so we can go back to not playing a guessing game when we crack your deeds. This is going to continually happen until there are upper limits set for ham, damage, speed, resists, and armor (possibly specials). I am not just challenging anyone to say no to the system I proposed. This is meant to be a starting point. But just saying "NO, it takes all the BE fun away" seems to be selfishly motivated as to not want a fix at all in the name of fun. Noone else has come up with an alternative proposal from the BE camp. Devs cannot make it work. But saying the fix is soley on the shoulders of the Devs lacks any real motivation to see it fixed. But fantoq brings up the point of offering this as an alternative system for skins you do not currently have. I will tell you if it were the alternative you would find more people bringing wild to you to be slapped with booster shots than you would have time to create your own fun in the current clone system.
Hell whenI made antibiotic resistant E. coli in genetics lab I thought that was fun too. If what you are doing in your clone process is antyhing like the real thing then I do not doubt it can be fun. Except that DNA once expanded looks more like snot that anything remotely cool. That part was really not all that.
Look here it is in a nutshell. I will not defend what I proposed any longer. It was there, no BE wants it. CH seem interested. You deny it and win at all costs, like was foretold. I will sit and wait for Devs to fix you. Since it means fixing CH in the process..........I will keep waiting.
From your first set of posts:
"For example, A CL65 Bull Rancor with a HAM of 12600 could be raised by 2646-3150. This could modify the DMA to have a HAM in the range of 15246-15750. The specials are not unnatural for wild versions of the same CL type so again no CL Validity Check is necessary. This would allow certain pets with Light Armor already to have Medium Armor. This is however a high end pet and because CH do spend valuable skill points to be CH they should be allowed to have these."
This will be my last post in this thread.
You fully admit you havent gotten the first clue / any experiencewith the BE cloning system, then are puzzled when BE give a big thumbs down to your "proposal" !? I can imagine the welcome I would receive on the Armorsmith board when I arrive there with my amazing new "solutions" which nerf them back to the stone age! Remember in the past how our CH board was flooded with hate filled nerf posts talking about pets eating their masters, we should only have one pet, CH should be removed from the game all together etc. Remember how we felt then?
BEhave told you multiple timesthat the major issue with clones is that the system for calculating the CL of the clone is not functioning correctly.The validity checks are a stop gap measure that the devs have unfortunately managed to mess up. The devs just need to fix the CL calculationso the CL fits the stats, not completely gut the system, thenwe can put this damaging uberBEpet period behind us and concetrate on other things...
Castillo,
I am just wondering though. Why can the same process not be used. But instead it makes a Stim? I mean if there is some neat game you get to play while doing this leave it in place. All I have really asked for is that they effects be changed to percentage that can be judged and it be wrapped in a skin we provide.
You are right though it does seem the end of this thread. You have the power and no discussion of fairness can come in any forum where one decidedly has the power already. You and Spazz have established that, and it verifies Mr. Rawls Veil of Ignorance Theory. I tried to come to you as an equal but you have expressed in so many words we are combat support. We are nothing but your tools to fun. Even if the system does get fixed eventually you will have very very few MCH and lots of non-CH dabblers. As pointed out scouts are harvesters not CH. Any argument to the contrary is justshowing that the fox is guarding the henhouse.
It seemed reasonable. You cannot give me any other why's than it take our fun away. I do not believe any person would apporch a weaponsmith or armorsmith and call for nerfs of the crafting process itself. I will have my own MBE soon enough so the argument is not one I take on for myself. Like those of you who so willing show you are BE before CH. My BE will only be to serve my CH. It is how it should be. It is how it will be.
Spaz,
I know we have talked about it in the other forum but I do think its unfair that you misrepresent what was written. I did state that we would need a slave collar to function as a new form of Deed. That is to provide for CH offering it on vendors or bazaar. Or even more readily to your won vendor so you may work closer with the CH's that you want. It is by no means a final draft of anything but a starting point. I am just saddened that it seems that no one would rather develop something that does work but wait on the Devs and the system (both who do not work) to fall magically into place. The creative team assembled certainly lacks imagination and/or know-how to get the job done.