Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: PETITION to release the Max CL 10 HAM!
Spazzers wrote:
The crafting system you will see today is going to be revolked.
I ran across the same thing today and was flabbergasted. I'm making nice 2k HAM - 4k HAM (rediculously low damage) pets as a long time master BE with all sorts of recipes and techniques and whatnot, and I have a friend who just started BE and is like 0-0-1-1 or something like that. He madea peta couple of weeks ago that he put a lot of effort into (because of how tough it is for him to sample anythinggood) that was like 800 HAM or something and CL 8. He was pretty proud of it, and uses it as his pet. Sotoday with the new patch he calls it and gets the illegal pet screen! omg! I was laughing, but mainly at the stupidity of the system. The *only* way this pet should be considered invalid is because it was *underpowered*, lol. Seriously, a lesser plains bolcould kick this thing's butt.
This whole thing is just a horrible debacle, I'm sorry, no other way to put it.
Hondor64 wrote:
OK i am beyond pissed off.
/ranton
I had a lvl 8 durni 1200 h 1321 a 1244m no resists 40-50 dmg
i called it today and it was invalid. i'm like **edit**? adjust stats.
weird...
I made a CL 10 bantha yesterday with voritor dasher and huurton pup DNA. It came out 3900 - 3300 - 1800 (ish), and the guy who bought it from me (non ch), tamed it right in front of me. So no 'illegal' msg there
my 4k HAM cl10 razor cat is still valid as well.... god knows how the devs have implemented the pets valid/invalid check, but i think some needs to do a QA on that code...
as for getting some straight answers...
/sign
Health: 7319
Action: 4358
Mind: 3729
Kinetic and Blast 20%
This is a simple and clear case of "Waaaaa!! I ignored the best advice that others posted as to how high HAM would probably cap and made monsters with 9K health and now I can't sell them for 100k each!!!" . I'm sorry, but while no one has as yet determined or released the "max level", the chances of a 9K health CL 10 have been miniscule to begin with, and people ignored that reasonable suggestion to their own detriment, like you apparently did.
I talked to a number of my customers for non-CH pets, who all had no problems at all with their 3K health, balanced HAM, >20% K and E resist pets, and who were quite pleased to be able to rely on them. A couple of them were having fun with their new Bantha mounts, though they do say the bantha seems pretty slow; the one that had a cu pa was quite as pleased with it as a mount as they were already with it as a tank pet.
Face it, the top non-CH pet for HAM used to be the cowardly gurreck, and there are few of us who could not find the HAM and resists on that creature in a minute or two. The changes to BE were described in terms of making creatures that were as much as 50% better than their "wild" counterpart. HMMMM, the best CL 15 non-agressive had 3200 health... A CL 10 BE pet might possibly be 50% better than a wild level 10... maybe as powerful as a wild level 15???? Geee.... how hard can this be?
Yes, we can trade off some mind or action for a little more health, or tip the damage down to get the resists up, etc, but come on, how hard really is this to figure out. 2 - 3 times the power of a CL 15 is just not in the cards for a CL 10 creature, and no amount of saying "well, the didn't tell us it wasn't OK in big letters carved in stone on the cliffs below Theed" doesn't change that.
I for one, absolutely DO NOT want them to declare that a non CH pet is allowed to have up to 3399 Health, 3398 Action, 3299 Mind, 20% Kinetic resist, 19% Energy Resist, 20% Blast resist, 70% Heat, Cold, Acid resists, 20% Stun and 50% Electricity resists, do 50 damage at 2.10 speed and a .3 to hit, and have no more than 2 specials out of the special 1, 2 and ranged pool. I would rather the occaisional creature exceed the caps and reveal itself to me as a CL 11 than to have to make every template the same and never sell anything other than precisely the above list of stats for an absurd price that will come down as quickly as the formula to make them becomes known.
We have the only profession where what we make can be absolutely unique, and where our efforts mean something no one else can duplicate. Every other crafting profession has hard caps that are well recognized and scrambles incessantly for the 999,999,999 resource to make them, and spends multiple millions on tapes, attachments, foods, etc to get the additional few experimentation points to get there. We make amazing creations because of the effort, not the random number generator, and we make them as well or poorly as our efforts in doing so provide. Do you honestly want to be like every other crafting profession, or do you want to excel based on how much you learn, experiment, and apply that knowledge?
Think it over VERY carefully before you ask for the limit that you will HAVE to achieve every time to have a salable item, and consider the price you will pay in the ability to do better.
For all its bugs and vagaries, I think we have the best crafting system in game, for the simple reason that what we do in it matters more than any other crafter. I can take the same resources, grind the same skill boxes, use the same templates and make the same houses, harvesters and candles as any architect in the game. Not even the absolute best BE in the game can make the same pet I do, even with the same recipe and the same DNA samples. It is a tradeoff between being uniquely free to try, with no clear limits, or being hounded to reach an arbitrary goal, and once you have done so, to know that you can never do any better.
I'll take our deal any day.
LLan
LLan, read the post right above yours. That's what the petition is regarding. I don't think people are complaining they can't sell uber critters that have 10K HAM and are CL4. Its that a CL10animal with 5K HAM is valid andone with 2K isn't.
Slodwurrp wrote:
Wokka was curious what i meant by crafting fix....let me try to lay this out...
Under last patch, I made a slew of CL 9's, 1200/2000/1400Ham. Now, these lvl 9's are invalid and if you fix the lvl instead of tha stats (on the new invalid pet screen) the lvl comes out to a 12.
So, my curiousity is, using the same DNA combo as I used to make my lvl 9's, what will the CL be? Will it be an invalid lvl 9?(in which case i'm pulling my hair out...means there is no way to tell a pet's validity until it is tamed) OR will it come out to be a lvl 12? (which is what the game is telling me the creature should be)
I hope that explains it (and if anyone has an answer, I'd love to know...is crafting invalid pets fixed???)
Ok I got yer meaning now. You want the validity check to happen before the pet is done and not after you've created it and rejoiced in your crafting triumph... only to find out that the CL police are going to pull you over the moment you try to call it.
I think the problem with that is:
1) We want to know what CL pet we're gonna get.
2) The devs want to prevent and neuter invalid pets.
3) We'll probably never know what CL we'll get before it gets crafted.
4) The devs don't know how to do this either. (how embarassing for them)
Wokka-wokka
One of the things that has made SWG worth my continued effort despite its obvious weaknesses is the lattitude given most characters to select a role that suits them. Nowhere in the crafting professions, however, does that breadth exist except for the Bio Engineer. Yes, we can choose to be BE/CH, or BE/Doctor, or BE/Hobo
but we can do things that are unique only as a BE as far as crafting.I really do not want to lose that, which is precisely the end result of a set of published "caps" for our creatures stats, whether it is for CL 10 or CL 70. It is not which pets are callable and which are not; though I do contend that the person making the initial post was all about making monster tanks and when the stats were "enforced", ran flat into what the majority of the experienced BEs suggested would be the case.
What I am trying to say is that the more tightly defined a pet's parameters become, the less freedom we will have to make the individual contribution we can now. When it is published that a CL 10 can have X health, Y resists and Z damage, anything with X-1, Z-4 or Y-10 will become resampling material, and every pet on your vendor will be the same cowardly gurreck in narglatch's clothing that is on every other BE's vendor.
When color and shape are the only decisions we have left to make, what is being the best BE worth any more?
That is what I am hoping we can prevent. Yes, I agree that not knowing is frustrating in the extreme. I am contending, however, that knowing exactly what the 'caps' are will establish the same situation that an architect faces with harvesters or a tailor faces with just about anything they make; this is good, the rest is garbage.
At that point, what possible reason is there to go through what we do to get the DNA and make the creatures in the first place? The next patch, or the next after that will have DNA replicators, and we will make a schematic for 1000 CL 10 Gurrecks, load up the crates of DNA, Meat and Flora, and go look for something to keep us interested long enough to let the factory finish.
Ask D'Tox about being the best weaponsmith on Naritus, and how much fun that was for him? Ask Kemal about master Tailor, or Renairdor about Doctor.
We're the only ones with a chance to keep our profession "creative" rather than paint-by-numbers crafting. That's what I am hoping we can value enough to preserve, and not make it as easy and as dull as the rest have become. You've posted about already having a job, and not wanting SWG to become a second one, my friend. I hope what I am saying here means that I feel the same way, and that I see the devil in the details here. I am all too afraid that the "definition" we are asking for is the standard by which we will have no option but to abide, and the cost of knowing will be our freedom, and the life of our profession.
LLan
I agree with you in principal. BE is a lot of fun and the variables make the profession very unique. I don't think I'd want to know what the max CL10 HAM is to be honest. I'd just like to know there really is such a thing.
I read in another threada BE made the freak CL10 10K HAM animals thatmost people wanted to "balance" with a pet check. He made them yesterday and they were valid. People that made CL10 animals with 2K HAM or even 1.5K HAM were given the invalid message. I myself made a CL5 bantha with 500 HAM as a joke. It was invalid.
Again, we've been given a pet check that does not balance the freaks. It balances the animals everyone thought would be legal. In effect it does exactly opposite what we were asking for. I think that is what's driving these type of threads more than anything else.
I think most of use would sell our childs soul to get this info (ok, well maybe not our child's soul, considering I don't have children...but you get my point)
/sign becasue the frustration is making my head explode
1.Make our crafting system work! I do a Mon-Calamari Jig every time I get a successful recipe for a CL 9 or 10. All my creatures have been a varied HAM, but all stats below 2200. I did this to hopefully ensure the validity of my creations come the pet check we are now experiencing(they told us about it last patch). Now, none of my recipes are valid (yet a 6kham with resists out the wazoo is), and I can't even work out a new recipe because the CL still come out invalid!
OR
2. Release the max CL HAM (for all lvls). I don't favor this option, but it seems the only realistic one, since the devs can't fix the system. In this case, they would have to release a chart with max stats (or average stats, i'd prefer that) for every CL. This would be necessary to know if any creatures (CH or NON-CH) lvl was valid.
.......sigh........