Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA Storage
Page 1 of 9
NancyJ
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:39 am
#1
With the vendor item limits on the horizon I figure now might be the time to push the DNA storage issue again, so if you have any thoughts about how to solve the storage problems we have please feel free to discuss it here - if you disagree with someones idea, please post the reasons you disagree in a civilised tone and keep the 1 starring to a minimum 
I want to hear everyones thoughts and I want to see fors and againsts for peoples ideas, the bluename tag doesnt give us instant vision
I cant always think of the flip side of every idea so if you can, please post but if you're ranty and flamey then I'm not going to be very receptive to your ideas
I want to hear everyones thoughts and I want to see fors and againsts for peoples ideas, the bluename tag doesnt give us instant vision
I cant always think of the flip side of every idea so if you can, please post but if you're ranty and flamey then I'm not going to be very receptive to your ideas
Zadokk
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:49 am
#2
I think samples should stack from the same creature. I.e. All creatures are assigned a type, like a durni would be in a group called 'Durni' and all rancor youths would be in a group called 'Rancor Youth'. You get samples from them in a similar way that you would say gather milk from a creature. So for instance, samples from low level creatures (durnis) produce a high yield of DNA (because they are so much easier to sample etc) - so from one durni you might get 125 or 150 units before it dies. However, high level creatures, like Mutant Rancors produce a very low yield of DNA - say maybe 25 or 50 units before it perishes. Obviously the numbers dont have to be round - so you may get less than 1 sample from any one creature before it dies - however it would stack. So you could go to your BE buddy "hey can you lend me 7 units of Mutant Rancor DNA so Icanuse it in a template?" -and he could split it like a resource.
Lower level BEs would produce a lower yield of milk per sample (like milking is dependant on the person's Hunting abilities) but there would still be a level restriction on sampling - much like the Creature Handler's error message: "You cannot tame that" except it would say "You cannot sample that". This would also prevent novice BEs from wasting time sampling creautres that are just to high level for them.
The only downfall from this would be that there would be a removal of the quality system which could effect how specials stick etcand it would standardise all samples. But I think this definately solve the stacking problem, as well as clear up all those teary eyes of novice BEs wondering why they cant sample a dewback or something.
ArthurDentOnBria
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:56 am
#3
As much as I'd like a dna storage solution, for me the vendor limit and the dna storage problems are unrelated. I don't store dna in my vendor, and to be honest of the stores I've visited I haven't seen many others do this either. So while a dna storage solution would be nice, it would not do me one bit of good as far as being able to run a successful store, and I would hate to think that a dev would think that by throwing us a small bone in this area that it would help mitigate the vendor debacle.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-07-2004 07:59 AM
-Zocau-
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:59 am
#4
Zadokk, I find your concept interesting but I don't see how it could work. Let's say you sample from 2 different Mutant Rancors...welll one has a fortitude of 780....while the other has a fortitude of 730. Each sample is different. And it appears your idea would be saying that every creature gives the exact same sample as another creature of the same type. Maybe I am misinterpreting.
My idea would be a DNA Freezer Unit to put in our house or something similar to that. It can only hold DNA....and you can only have one per house....but the items within it do not count against the item storage in your house. Yes I know its a very long shot. But hey we don't have any BE food, we don't have any BE clothing, We don't have armor or clothing attachments. They can give us something.
Trident
Master BE/Chef on Chilastra
Zadokk
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:08 am
#5
-Zocau- wrote:
Zadokk, I find your concept interesting but I don't see how it could work. Let's say you sample from 2 different Mutant Rancors...welll one has a fortitude of 780....while the other has a fortitude of 730. Each sample is different. And it appears your idea would be saying that every creature gives the exact same sample as another creature of the same type. Maybe I am misinterpreting.
no, that is one of the problems I noticed my self - i said that it would standardise the samples, all creatures of the same kind would give the exact same stats which in itself would be a problem because I know that many people (including myself) like to use VHQ of merek harvester DNA to get that little extra bit of fortitude so that they get light armour (ive had fortitude 499 before, cant tell how frustrating that is). Perhaps, running with the resoruce idea, they could perhaps make 'shifts' of DNA - say some might have higher fortitude one fortnight but the next shift might be lower quality. *shrug*
I like the DNA freezer idea, but yeah, I think its a long shot too.
ArthurDentOnBria
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:12 am
#6
One nice side-effect of the "freezer" idea is that at fanfest they talked about wanting to give architects some new things to make. They mentioned the idea of "house-addons" which would be what this is. So this would actually kill two birds with one stone. If the devs were willing/able to do this, it would be really nice. It would seem to me that if they are concerned about this having an impact on the database then we might be limited to a "stacking" type solution, but the one you suggest would certainly be better for us imho.
-Zocau- wrote:
My idea would be a DNA Freezer Unit to put in our house or something similar to that. It can only hold DNA....and you can only have one per house....but the items within it do not count against the item storage in your house. Yes I know its a very long shot. But hey we don't have any BE food, we don't have any BE clothing, We don't have armor or clothing attachments. They can give us something.
Trident
Master BE/Chef on Chilastra
1of2alts
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:18 am
#7
From a post I...saw:
The 'Blood Sample' idea was along the lines of this:
- BE's wouldn't sample DNA directly from the target creature. Instead we would try to get a blood sample instead.
- This blood sample would be of various qualities just like DNA and would take up 1 inventory space.
- The BE would then be able to 'Sample DNA' from the blood sample just like we do withclone deeds.
- The quality of the DNA sample retrieved would be random based on skill (like it is now)
How does this help us?
- We can now get a number of blood samples, store them in our houses, and then extract DNA as we need it, instead of having to get a large number of DNA samples that we have to store.
- The blood samples would be named from the creature it was obtained from (ex. High Quality Mutant Rancor Blood Sample)
Now, some of the self imposedlimitations so the devs might consider it:
- The quality of the blood sample directly affects how easy it is to fail when getting the DNA sample. Below Average quality blood will have more failurea than VHQ.
- Like the pet deeds, we can't DNA sample the blood indefinately. We'd only be able to get afewDNA samples from each blood sample.
- There would be an increased chance of agro and creature death when getting the blood sample. This will provide the increased risk to go with the increased reward of having a single successful blood sample yeild multiple DNA samples
- The stats we get with each sample would be the same as if we were sampling the creature directly.
Note: this isn't my idea. This has been proposed before I just can't remember who's idea it is.
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Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome
Xzantos
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:43 am
#8
Hello,
I have just gotten Novice BE and the DNA samples do cause a space issue. Now with having been a Master Droid Engineer the idea I have is why cant the DNA samples be a Data item instead of a general item. With that in mind that gives us the ability to get droids with a data storage unit of 150 capacity and to go even further you can have up to 5 droids for a total storage of 750 DNA samples. Now this is just an Idea that may help the DE's and our storage problems at the same time. I had to drop DE for lack of sales and player interest in droids so maybe this can help both.
What does everyone else think on this good bad or stupid?
Suenr
Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:03 am
#9
The blood sample idea is a good one, but I don't think we need a quality on the blood itself. That would further reduce any storage problems. It also opens up the option to have another class be able to gather blood as well. If the blood sampling were given to other classes, I would suggest master ranger and maybe master CH. I would prefer that it remained BE only, but it does open up that option so I thought I should mention it.
Ralfire
Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:03 am
#10
Xzantos wrote:Hello,I have just gotten Novice BE and the DNA samples do cause a space issue. Now with having been a Master Droid Engineer the idea I have is why cant the DNA samples be a Data item instead of a general item. With that in mind that gives us the ability to get droids with a data storage unit of 150 capacity and to go even further you can have up to 5 droids for a total storage of 750 DNA samples. Now this is just an Idea that may help the DE's and our storage problems at the same time. I had to drop DE for lack of sales and player interest in droids so maybe this can help both.What does everyone else think on this good bad or stupid?
Or take it a step further and create a droid just for BE's that would hold 100-150 DNA samples
Suenr
Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:19 am
#11
Just wanted to get one more plug in for the blood idea. The fact is, they don't want us to be storing more DNA. DNA is very database intinsive to store. It has all those stats, and they are all different. You never get two DNA samples alike. And that makes the chances of any increased storage for DNA a real problem.
With the blood idea, not only do you solve the individual storage problems, you help solve the database storage problems. Blood will be stackable and allow for more gathering and storage for us while saving database space for them. It is a win/win situation. There will be much less loose DNA around because we would rather keep the much less space consuming blood around and will only sample DNA from it as needed. It is just such a good idea from their point of view and from ours that I don't see how they can't add it. Even if they made it so taking blood samples always ended in either success and death, or failure and agro, it would be worth the change (although there might be a tough time for us as they ironed out the new success rates).
With the blood idea, not only do you solve the individual storage problems, you help solve the database storage problems. Blood will be stackable and allow for more gathering and storage for us while saving database space for them. It is a win/win situation. There will be much less loose DNA around because we would rather keep the much less space consuming blood around and will only sample DNA from it as needed. It is just such a good idea from their point of view and from ours that I don't see how they can't add it. Even if they made it so taking blood samples always ended in either success and death, or failure and agro, it would be worth the change (although there might be a tough time for us as they ironed out the new success rates).
Seiryuu
Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:46 am
#12
[Edit - snipped a lot of extraneous information.]
This is similar to what 1of2 suggested, and based on a previous post I made [removed from here as it was mostly redundant]. The important things I think the system needs to cover regardless of implementation:
- The blood samples are stackable, with no serial number.
- The pulled sample is randomized, with its own serial number.
- Blood is converted to DNA on a one-for-one basis.
- The quality should be associated with the blood sample. More to store, but that way you always know the quality of what you are pulling out.
The changes from existing samples when blood is considered to be an 'intermediate' unseen step:
- The blood sample would need to have the 'base' HAM of the donor creature. Should they be randomized as normal creatures are, or stick to the base with only the normal sample randomization? (For those that don't know, donor HAM is currently reflected in the samples.)
This is similar to what 1of2 suggested, and based on a previous post I made [removed from here as it was mostly redundant]. The important things I think the system needs to cover regardless of implementation:
- The blood samples are stackable, with no serial number.
- The pulled sample is randomized, with its own serial number.
- Blood is converted to DNA on a one-for-one basis.
- The quality should be associated with the blood sample. More to store, but that way you always know the quality of what you are pulling out.
The changes from existing samples when blood is considered to be an 'intermediate' unseen step:
- The blood sample would need to have the 'base' HAM of the donor creature. Should they be randomized as normal creatures are, or stick to the base with only the normal sample randomization? (For those that don't know, donor HAM is currently reflected in the samples.)
Message Edited by Seiryuu on 08-07-2004 11:51 AM
-Zocau-
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:01 am
#13
Suenr wrote:
It also opens up the option to have another class be able to gather blood as well. If the blood sampling were given to other classes, I would suggest master ranger and maybe master CH. I would prefer that it remained BE only, but it does open up that option so I thought I should mention it.
I would have to say I completely disagree with any thought that another class would be doing this for us. If they were to give this ability to Ranger or CH you can count on me dropping BE that day.
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