Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: DNA Sampling Proposal
NancyJ
Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:40 pm
#14
I agree, its would be stupid to change the system if we didnt gain anything, but that is not the case with this proposal, we would gain potentially up to 7 times the amount of DNA storage that we have now with no extra DB strain
NancyJ
Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:53 pm
#15
I think we need to get together a solid proposal that the majority of us agree on, it is unlikely that any system will be implemented exactly as written and discussion (hopefully) will be entered into but we need to have a solid vision of what the community as a whole wants.
Suenr
Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:07 pm
#16
Okay, I see how this would give us some advantages, but here are the problems I see with it.
First, it throws out the risk vs reward that is currently in place and may need to be tweaked. Maybe success always resulting in death, and adding code where you always get a sample when the deed poofs from your invetory so you never come up completley empty handed.
Second, this doesn't really increase storage much on high level creatures since you are often lucky to get more then one or two samples from the higher level creatures.
Third, it replaces the most database intensive item (DNA) with what is probably the second most database intensive item (pet deed).
On the plus side, it does keep the creature stats so they wouldn't have to change the randomization code at all.
I still prefer the stat free, stackable blood idea since it is better for both us and the database, but I could live with either.
First, it throws out the risk vs reward that is currently in place and may need to be tweaked. Maybe success always resulting in death, and adding code where you always get a sample when the deed poofs from your invetory so you never come up completley empty handed.
Second, this doesn't really increase storage much on high level creatures since you are often lucky to get more then one or two samples from the higher level creatures.
Third, it replaces the most database intensive item (DNA) with what is probably the second most database intensive item (pet deed).
On the plus side, it does keep the creature stats so they wouldn't have to change the randomization code at all.
I still prefer the stat free, stackable blood idea since it is better for both us and the database, but I could live with either.
Manina
Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:13 pm
#17
I agree With Dent: The success of sampling should be with the blood; it stacks; you get one DNA sample per blood; and the quality of the DNA should be determined when you extract the DNA from the blood.
...All I ask for is a lvl 50 little white rabbit, with fangs and a mean streak a mile wide...
...All I ask for is a lvl 50 little white rabbit, with fangs and a mean streak a mile wide...
Meplorium
Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:37 pm
#18
This sounds good but they seem to be too under staffed to deal with anything but simple changes. I think just getting a stack of DNA from 1-8 when you sample would work. You would need to sample less since you are getting more, but it does cut down on inventory, crit fails won't seem so harsh since it is less work to get all your samples and it is simple enough for them to do. I would perfer this over nothing at all. Though your proposal does sound more interesting and fun game play wise, I just don't see them getting the work done on that.
Taranog
Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:20 pm
#19
I like the idea of Blood being taken, but i'd like that when sampled you could get 1 - 5 dna samples from it. I cannot STAND going out and having to sample 50 times and only getting 20 Samples. Not to mention the harder creatures, to sample from themthe risk heavily outways the reward, because frankly i've died sampling rancors more times then i've gotten samples from them.
metalbard
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:21 pm
#20
Ok here is what I think on a final plan for revamp. Blood is stackable. DNA samples come from blood on the same random matrix we have from sampling critters. If blood is not stackable we are given the option of an Architect made Blood Bank that we can store 200 samples and make a droid that has 50 sample blood bank meaning some one with an empty backpack and very little on their person can gather almost 200 samples on one trip to endor.The items stored in the blood bank do not count as items in the house a novice can have 1 blood bank a person with all for boxes in sampling can have 2 and masters can have 3. Blood is not a 1 for 1 dna sample but a ratio based on the sampling skill of the BE. It makes since to have stacks of Blood floating around with very little database info in it than the 45 or so DNA samples I carry at all times to be able to make a pet in a short time with a /tell order.
Suenr
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:21 pm
#21
Meplorium wrote:This sounds good but they seem to be too under staffed to deal with anything but simple changes. I think just getting a stack of DNA from 1-8 when you sample would work. You would need to sample less since you are getting more, but it does cut down on inventory, crit fails won't seem so harsh since it is less work to get all your samples and it is simple enough for them to do. I would perfer this over nothing at all. Though your proposal does sound more interesting and fun game play wise, I just don't see them getting the work done on that.
Okay, which would be easier to enact?
Both call for a new item called "creature name" blood. For one that new item would have no other stats and be stackable. For the other that item would basically be a pet deed without the tame option. The first takes far less database space, the second allows the creature's stats to carry through to the DNA sample. Since pet deeds are already in the game, both items would be equally as easy to add.
The stackable blood system would need some code tweaks to get the variables when turning blood into DNA samples. The deed style blood system would use the same system as now.
The deed style blood system would require tweaking the sampling success/failure rates in order to keep the same risk vs reward. The stackable blood system would use the same system as now.
Advantages of the stackable blood system would be much more increased storage space and much less database space. The advantages of the deed style blood system would be the actual creature stats carrying through to the final DNA sample.
Both are technically about the same difficulty to enact, but I prefer the stackable blood system because it gives us the most storage, saves the devs the most database space, and requires no balancing. That weighs more in my opinion that carrying the original creature stats over to the final DNA. But both would be an improvement.
1of2alts
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:38 pm
#22
I have to admit I like the stackable blood proposal, my only doubt would be if the Devs would allow us to be able to build up that large a quantity of DNA?
Suenr wrote:
Both are technically about the same difficulty to enact, but I prefer the stackable blood system because it gives us the most storage, saves the devs the most database space, and requires no balancing. That weighs more in my opinion that carrying the original creature stats over to the final DNA. But both would be an improvement.
Suenr
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:45 pm
#23
1of2alts wrote:
I have to admit I like the stackable blood proposal, my only doubt would be if the Devs would allow us to be able to build up that large a quantity of DNA?
Well, it isn't like you will have blood harvesters or something running. Each and every blood sample would still require you to go out and actively sample the creature in question. And the devs have said they understand the problems with DNA storage, but increasing that storage capacity wasn't high on their list because DNA itself is so database intensive. An item such as Rancor Blood with no stats would be easier on their database than any other resource in the game.
1of2alts
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:46 pm
#24
Agreed. I"m sold. If they don't like it we can always go to Plan B: non-stackable blood option.
Suenr wrote:
Well, it isn't like you will have blood harvesters or something running. Each and every blood sample would still require you to go out and actively sample the creature in question. And the devs have said they understand the problems with DNA storage, but increasing that storage capacity wasn't high on their list because DNA itself is so database intensive. An item such as Rancor Blood with no stats would be easier on their database than any other resource in the game.
Distaste
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:34 pm
#25
I like the blood idea, but we dont even need it to go that far. Take a look at it from a RL standpoint, 1 hair has sooo much DNA in it. So why not just make it that every DNA sample we take have mulitple uses. Personaly id just like to see the pet lvl in my generic DNA template...that way i dont have a ton of 1 type of pet trying to hit the lvl i want. The blood idea would work though, also maybe the would make it possible to sample meat or hide since IRL they contain DNA as well, idk how it would determine the sample itself, maybe just give a generic DNA sample with base stats according to planets average.
Seiryuu
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:59 pm
#26
I am with Suener and Arthur on this.
For database reasons the stackable blood sample being tied to only a creature name means it will address the problems the devs have with data storage. For our own uses it is a lot more convenient. For balance purposes it is the same system we have now, just with an intermediate step, no tweaking necessary.
The one difference I have with them is that I think the sample should come with a quality rating. When you get VHQ rancor blood it turns into a VHQ rancor DNA sample with a unique serial number. Otherwise we negate the storage benefit because we pull out sample qualities we don't want to use in a specific pet and are forced to store that until we make a pet where we can.
For database reasons the stackable blood sample being tied to only a creature name means it will address the problems the devs have with data storage. For our own uses it is a lot more convenient. For balance purposes it is the same system we have now, just with an intermediate step, no tweaking necessary.
The one difference I have with them is that I think the sample should come with a quality rating. When you get VHQ rancor blood it turns into a VHQ rancor DNA sample with a unique serial number. Otherwise we negate the storage benefit because we pull out sample qualities we don't want to use in a specific pet and are forced to store that until we make a pet where we can.