Bio Engineer Archive

Ok, I've read through the suggestions thread and this is the basics of the proposal I want to hand over to the devs, all comments are appreciated before I finalise the proposal.

As mentioned by myself and Talthazaar, storage of DNA is a major concern for Bioengineers. We have already been told that the chances of us getting more storage space is pretty much zero so outlined below is a suggested change to the DNA sampling process that is 1. easy to implement, 2. does not require any more storage space or strain on the database.

Currently when a BE samples a creature they obtain a single DNA sample that takes up 1 inventory space. DNA from the same creature does not stack as each piece is unique. 5 pieces of DNA are required to make 1 sample.
The number of samples obtainable before the creature dies is dependant on BE skill.

This is the change we would like :- Instead of taking a single DNA sample, a 'blood sample' is taken from the creature. This blood sample has no quality or specific stats, in terms of data storage it is like storing a deed of the creature you sampled in your inventory.
A BE can store as many of these blood samples as his inventory can hold and store them for later use.
On returning to his lab or wherever he can then extract a DNA sample from the blood. The number of samples he could extract would be based on his DNA sampling skills - EXACTLY as the process is now, except the DNA samples are taken from an item in your inventory (exactly the same as resampling a BE pet deed)

It is a very small change that would alleviate many BE problems.

• DNA Storage

This is the obvious first problem that it would solve, BE's could collect blood from around the galaxy and take it home to work with allowing BE's to be more productive and spend more time crafting and less time standing around at starports. With the tight storage limitations and the complex and random nature of bioengineering it is possible to use an entire backpakcs worth of DNA on 1 or 2 pets.


• Availability of Custom Pets

If it were possible to store a selection of useful DNA more BE's would be able to create pets to custom order or 'on the fly'.
Too often I have had customers coming to me in desperation as they have contacted many BE's who simply wont do custom orders.


• Organisation of DNA samples

Currently DNA samples are labelled only by quality, since the blood would not have quality it could be labelled with the creature donor.
Eg. Currently I may have 60 DNA samples in my inventory, when it comes to making a DNA template I have to click on each sample to find out which creature it is from.
In the proposed system I might have 10 blood samples and take a DNA sample only from the ones I wanted for that particular template making it much easier and more 'user friendly'

Message Edited by NancyJ on 08-08-2004 10:06 PM





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Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar

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1of2alts wrote:

Couple ofthings Nancy:

- How is the Blood Sample obtained? Do we always geta blood sample from the creature, or is it skill based just like DNA sampling? If its skill based, I assume it will be based off the DNA sampling skill?

- If we are going to be able to get multiple DNA from 1 Blood Sample do we have to discuss risk vs. reward? With this system we canmay get multiple DNA samples each time we 'poke' a creature, where as in the system we have its a 1:1 ratio. Will we need to increase our risk to get the devs to consider this?

- It looks like you are sugesting the blood samples do not stack. Is this correct?

This idea works for me since we will be able to store the potential for a lot more DNA than we can now. Sure, there's the unknown number of DNA samples we'll get for each blood sample (just like with pet deeds), but that should appeal to the 'randomness' the Devs seem to like in the profession. Additionally, I know if I have 2 Mutant Rancor Blood Samples there is a very good chance I'll have enough for at least 1 clone.

Additionally, I think this proposal offers the best bang for us in storage, while requiring the least amount of coding for the Devs.

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Blood samples would be obtained in the same way as DNA samples are now, sneak up and poke

No I dont think the blood should stack, I think that would 1) over complicate the matter (more data would need to be stored) 2) be asking for too much

As for risk vs reward, IMO I think currently BE is Very high risk for low reward, CH's are dwindling and our pet crafting line is very bugged.
We have the potential to be a very rewarding profession but in the current state of the game that is just not a reality.
Prices for BE pets have dropped dramatically since I first became a BE.
Obviously this is only my opinion, more in depth debate is needed on the subject - do you all feel that getting a stack of DNA instead of a single sample at the same risk is OK? or do you feel the failure/ aggro rates should be increased?

A few things I think should happen.

1. The only information a blood sample should contain is the creature name.

2. Blood samples from the same creature should stack.

3. Blood sampling should have the exact same failure rate that DNA sampling has now (if it works, don't mess with it).

4. Each blood sample should give exactly one DNA sample with no failure. It would also be nice if this step didn't eat up mind/action and if it could be performed right out of the stack. Maybe just add it as an option to the radial menu for blood.

5. Each DNA sample from blood will need to be randomized since it can't be based off the creature stats.

6. Regular DNA sampling should remain in place for those who wish to get a weighted sample (would be nice to use on that extra high health mutant rancor).

Six is optional, but I think it would be easy enough to just leave regular DNA sampling in and give the extraction of blood a new command.

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NancyJ wrote:

Blood samples would be obtained in the same way as DNA samples are now, sneak up and poke

No I dont think the blood should stack, I think that would 1) over complicate the matter (more data would need to be stored) 2) be asking for too much

As for risk vs reward, IMO I think currently BE is Very high risk for low reward, CH's are dwindling and our pet crafting line is very bugged.
We have the potential to be a very rewarding profession but in the current state of the game that is just not a reality.
Prices for BE pets have dropped dramatically since I first became a BE.
Obviously this is only my opinion, more in depth debate is needed on the subject - do you all feel that getting a stack of DNA instead of a single sample at the same risk is OK? or do you feel the failure/ aggro rates should be increased?

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Suenr wrote:
A few things I think should happen.

1. The only information a blood sample should contain is the creature name.

2. Blood samples from the same creature should stack.

3. Blood sampling should have the exact same failure rate that DNA sampling has now (if it works, don't mess with it).

4. Each blood sample should give exactly one DNA sample with no failure. It would also be nice if this step didn't eat up mind/action and if it could be performed right out of the stack. Maybe just add it as an option to the radial menu for blood.

5. Each DNA sample from blood will need to be randomized since it can't be based off the creature stats.

6. Regular DNA sampling should remain in place for those who wish to get a weighted sample (would be nice to use on that extra high health mutant rancor).

Six is optional, but I think it would be easy enough to just leave regular DNA sampling in and give the extraction of blood a new command.

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I thin kfor this type of proposal its asking for far too much of an increase in the ability for us to store DNA. Also, the amount of extra coding require to change the system in this way is a lot more than Nancy's proposal.

I think we need to focus on a proposal where we are gaining a decent amount of storage, but not asking for a lot of Dev time in the process.

There really isn't anything difficult in my proposal. First, they would need to make a /drawblood command. Then you get something simple like "Rancor blood" with no stats at all. It would be stackable with other "Rancor blood" and the risk of drawing it would be the same as taking DNA. When you get home and are ready to make a DNA template, you then extract rancor DNA from the rancor blood. Nothing complicated there, it would simply take one blood sample for one DNA sample. This keeps the entire risk vs reward of DNA sampling completely intact with what it is now. The DNA could then be used as normal. It would allow us to store more DNA in the form of stacked blood and it would save much database space since the blood would have no stats, just a creature name. A win/win situation.

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metalbard wrote:

I like the blood idea; I just hope that they will put it into effect. One nice thing that would be nice is if when you talk to the DEV’s You bring back their Input to us and discuss it once more and see if we cant come up with a Compromise between what is good for the DEVs (hardware storage issues and time taken to code) and what is good for the BE’s If we can find out what they are willing to do and give them a last bit of feedback as compromise I think this could defiantly help the working relationship between the DEVs and the Paying Players.

Metalbard

Former Master Arch

Former Master Smugler

Former Master Medic

Former Master Marksman

Novice Chef

Novice BE

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Every bit of feedback i've had from the devs i've brought back here, if I'm not coming back with dev comments on issues, its because i'm not getting them.

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1of2alts wrote:

But under your proposal we go from being very limited in the amount of DNA we can store, to an unlimited amount. That's the biggest part I think the devs would shoot down.

Plus, there is the part of creating DNA from random based on a creature type. This is additional coding.

With Nancy's proposal they add the 'extract blood' command. If its successful, then a blood sample with the 'baseline' DNA stats is created and placed in the inventory. When you 'sample DNA' on the blood sample it creates the DNA just as it does for pet deeds. I think its much easier this way.

These are just my opinion, and I don't think either of these proposals are ;wrong' I just think Nancy's propsal would have a better likelyhood of being acceptable based on the dev comments to date.

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The devs don't have a problem with us storing more DNA. They have a problem with DNA being so database intinsive. Blood wouldn't be database intensive, so I doubt they would have a problem with us storing more of that. As for the randomness of DNA, that is already there. It is what keeps VHQ DNA samples from the same creature from being identical, so that isn't a problem either.

My big question is, if blood doesn't stack, what is in it for us? Why revamp the system and put in that work if we gain nadda? If we don't get stackable blood, I would suggest that they leave sampling alone. It works fine and I would rather not take the risk of them messing it up if we gain nothing.

Thinking about this, one interesting side effect ot it is that you really could get something like "very low quality mutant rancor sample" if say a master bio engineer got blood from a mutant rancor, and sold it to a novice. Actually, I think that is a desirable side-effect, much better than giving the ability of any noob to get the best "blood" in the game, and the auctioning it off to the masters. That would really cheapen the dna sampling skill imho.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-08-2004 03:48 PM