Bio Engineer Archive

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KillerCRS wrote:

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

So selling them is fine IMO, as long as you tell the buyer it's only temporary and will be nerfed next patch day. Exactly as the devs hve told us.

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I have to agree. If the devs decided to take a nerf approach to the BE pets rather than invalidating them there is no reason NOT to make pets as high end as you can. They will be nerfed and as long as the customer knows this there is no scam, no cheating and no problem. If a CSR said the clones are legal, well like it or not they are legal. That one fact totally invalidates the whole point of the original post.

The title should be Just because you can, doesnt mean you Can't (because the CSR said so )

so in summary, go out make whatever uber pets you can and be happy. Besides cheating a customer for a quick profit is not a good business strategy and while you might make a quick 2 million or so before your found out in the long run NOT cheating your customer will pay off beyond any scam you can think up. I personally have made over 5 million in hard cash from pet sales alone and have several million in assets (I own my own PA hall, high end clothes with stats, high end weapons etc) and I have spent countless millions in maintinance, buying resources, travel tickets, helping friends etc etc etc. Plus I get 5-10 email orders a day averaging about 20-40k per sale for my pets. I never have to worry about convincing a customer to trust me they all know me and trust me, My shop has been a fixture outside Anchorhead since 3 weeks after Live.

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Tal-N wrote:

Be warned, despite claiming that if your allowed to do it then it's not illegal you are infact totally wrong. Don't do it.

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-Gerzan- wrote:

'"Where do you draw the line ???"'

good question. wait there's more:

'"Besides, it's not really a question as NO-ONE here that is not part of the dev team can answer this question as we don't know for sure what the CL takes into account for calculation..."'

the Dev team cant even answer that question. they dont understand their own code, so how are the going to understand where to draw the line?

there shouldnt be any lines until someone comes up with code that prevents this. and to ban someone who may not even read these forums (try 98% ofthe population), who ISNT a master BE yet can create pets like the ones mentioned here...

i call BS. i call *Whiners in the Chatroom*. i call STFUKTHX. Tal-N, you make too many assumptions about your fellow BE's. as you can see, i have a minimal amount of posts because, frankly, the things you people talk about in here are 99% supposition. Before condemning people, you should find out how those pets are big made. Before condemning people, you should find out if its a cheat or not. I promise you, it doesnt take a master BE to make those pets. In fact, you cant be a master BE and make those pets. You have to absolutely suck at making pets to make those pets.

Does it seem wrong? Yes.

Is it in the game? Yes.

Please refrain from making blanket statements about people you've never met. They arent cheating. They are playing the same BORKED GAME you are. Stop defending SWG and it will be alot easier on you.

The CODE is BORKED.

The GAME is BORKED.

Until its fixed stuff like this is going to happen, but YOU are not the person to tell people they will get banned for doing something they may have NO CLUE is wrong.

Ill **edit** now, but i will tell you this: Im not a master BE, but im making First Gen *perfect 10's* with 2k hams and 20% Special Kinetic resist. Im sure once I sample out the 100 or so of those I've made, I'll be able to make a 5th or 6th gen pet, under lvl 10, with 6-10k hams and 20% kinetic. I will have worked my butt off to do it. And yet.......

you people want to punish those that push the envelope.

Here's a few people that pushed the envelope:

Copernicus

Aristotle

Jesus

Joan of Arc

Columbus

Galileo

Johnathan Swift

Henry David Thoreau

the list goes on and on and on. sure, there are opposites tto this list. Mengele comes to mind rather swiftly, if not for the similarities to what he did and what BE's do.

But the previous poster hit the nail on the head when he said '"Some people are not reading those forums and might have no clues they're doing wrong..."'

and until that time, you really do need to take a step back. Please. Thanks.

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You work very hard to get high quality pets at a low level, and I applaud you for that. However it is apperent the cloning system mechanics fall apart at lower levels. By your logic, if I work in enough gens, I should be able to have CL70 pet with 20k HAM that does 1500 damage. I've tried multi-generation pets at the high end. As the stats go up, so does the CL. In fact, I have had many more creatures have the stats go down in accordance with CL, instead of showing some kind of quality:CL ratio improvement.

Uber non-CH pets take away from the CH profession. They are an unintended side-effect of a flawed system. If a Master Artisan could make a CDEF pistol better than any of the pistols Master Weaponsmith, Marksman, Pistoleers and Weaponsmiths would be up in arms. I am all for pushing the envelope, but there should be definate limits on what can happen at what limit. Pushing the envelope means getting as close to the maximum as the game mechanics will allow, rather than exploiting a whole in the system.

Where smugglers that were multi-slicing pushing the envelope? Were they all doing it maliciously?

Apply some common sense. Seriously.

I strongly disagree with this attitude on the part of SOE about these pets. The truth is, they created a system in which given combinations provide better than expected results. We are not doing anything outside our normal role in game, nor are we using techniques that are exceptional in any way. SOE is covering their mistake by blaming us for our success, and this is wrong.

If we were doing something innappropriate, by all means, code the "fix" to prevent it. If we were placing 2 or 3 dna samples in a single slot, or using unintended resources to make the forms, or any other non-standard technique, that avenue should be eliminated. If we combine specific DNA, and experiment according to our given capabilities, using appropriate resources according to the standard template process in the system, our results are valid.

I am all for shutting down credit and resource dupes and other such exploits. Those are clearly against the rules and should recieve very strong response. I understand the "adjustments" made to better balance classes, though I personally think the whole concept of "everyone is equal" in the MMORPG world at large is a fallacy that causes more problems than any other single factor. The CH changes to prevent the "dabblers" that maxed 2 lines of the procession for pet-tanks were clearly out of balance and the adjustments made accordingly served their purpose without destroying the profession, and I say that as a long-term Master Creature Handler.

This case, however, is quite different. People have learned more than those who developed the concepts of the bio-engineer system, through use and experimentation, as it was intended to be. They did not exceed the limits of the system as implemented through outside means, but simply maximized the results the system was capable of providing through developing that understanding. If anyone is at fault for the end result, it is the developers that did not forsee or test with adequate combinations before releasing the system, which is unfortunate, but is a choice the development and management made.

If SOE penalizes people for using the standard means of creating DNA templates and pets, within the parameters established by the system, they are blaming their customers for their own shortcomings, and if the results are better than they expected, it is their expectations that were lacking through lack of testing and the decision to release at a specific time, not the people who took the time and effort, and placed the trust in SOE after a very dismal start on the part of the BE profession to continue and to push the new capabilities to their limit.

These pets should remain. There is nothing wrong with the process by which they were created, and nothing wrong with the knowledge of the combinations of materials and DNA that are available in game to make them. If ANY of them show signs of the values being tampered with outside the paramaters of the game, by all means, eliminate them and chase down those that did so. But penalizing SOE's customers for their interest in and utilization of the system as SOE defined it is simply an unacceptable stance on the part of the people that made the process what it is, and should not be countenanced.

If they change the process in the future to eliminate such results, we as a class will have to evaluate the changes and their impact on our abilities and interest in the class and make our own decisions, and most I am sure will do so reasonably, and live within the new parameters. But if they take away the result of honest efforts to do what was defined as our role, I can see no justification SOE can provide that would warrant such action, and no good reason to continue efforts that can be withdrawn at a whim by the company. Our time and effort in game has value, and SOE must realize that, and treat it accordingly, in order to provide an environment in which we continue to expend those efforts with some assurance that the rewards will be ours.

If tomorrow I cannot make a CL 10 pet with 10K HAM, I will not complain in the least, the change to the parameters would be a fair adjustment. If Yesterday, I did make one, and it is no longer usable in game by the person I made it for, or even by myself, that is not.

LLan Farseeker - Farseeker's Muppet Labs
Making the Gnorts of Tomorrow, Today.
BadgerSett Emporium -7171 5522, near Theed, Naboo - Chilastra

The truth is, Morda, that you WOULD have found a great recipe, and not a loophole. If SOE wants to change the parameters so that those recipes no longer produce the results they do today, that's a decision they will make. If they chose to penalize you for making the pet, using the methods they provided, and the resources they make available to do so, that is an unacceptable action on their part.

Change the system if you think it is wrong. Take away the rewards of legitimate effort, and you take a way the customer's reason for playing.

LLan

The way I see this situation is:

The CL calculation is broken.

SOEtried to quick fix it, but messed it up.

SOE undid the patch and went to fix the problem properly.

At this point we're in limbo. The quick fix seemed to make some valid pets invalid, or maybe there was just too much uproar over the loss of a 1 Mcr + pet. In any case, as a BE with a stock of "uber" pets (or the means to make more) what should you do?

A. Hold your pets until the real fix comes through

B. Sell your pets, but tell your customers the situation and what you plan to do if there is a problem after the patch.

C. Tell your customers that these pets are fine and won't get nerfed. Sell the pets and if they do get nerfed, refuse to refund anything.

I think the real issue here is with people who chose "C"

Im sorry but i have to totally disagree with you on this one. Using unserialized krayt tissue is totally different then producing a level 10 critter with high ham. Most ofthe time you create something it is a total accident with the current system. It is a crap shoot if you get high ham or low ham etc etc. If you knowingly use the above tissue you should be banned. however creating a cl 10 pet with 9k ham is not an exploit. I have done this once purely by accident, no idea how i did it but i did. I have been unable to reproduce it. In no way did i exploit anything knowingly. And right there is the difference between a be producing a level 10 cl high critter and making a weapon with unserialized krayt tissue.

I have not made a pet since the "invalid" issue. Until I get a clear response regarding if the system has been fixed, I won't make pets. I have yet to see any definitive response from anyone at SWG regarding what they are doing. I have posted in the TH's Roundtable posts and I have posted in Blair's post regarding the BE issue with invalid.

DEAFENING SILENCE FOR TWO WHOLE WEEKS

If only this was a real company really interested in maintaining their customer bases, I'd get $7.50 back. **edit**, I don't care about $7.50, I just want the **edit** game to work AS ADVERTISED.

So you know what? Absent any communication from these fuktards, how are we supposed to know if a pet will be invalid in the next patch?

We don't.

According to TH's post to the Eclipse BE's The temporary fix they have instituted on Eclipse Is to put in a check when you try to call it. So making a so called Uber pet isn't an exploit since it's merely furniture and cannot be called even if it is tamed. So I'm not worried about getting banned for creating an invalid pet since it's not usable anyway. Besides if you make something you think is questionable just delete it. Thats just my 2 cents

Good use of the word fuktard.