Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: The infamous CL10!!!
GMANHNC
Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:07 pm
#14
Sky thanks for the info, so somewhere in between 10-15 is your response, all the other stuff is good, but not what we are looking for here.
We just want the basic pet stats of the MAX CL10 in your eyes, and then see if we can come to an agreement.
We just want the basic pet stats of the MAX CL10 in your eyes, and then see if we can come to an agreement.
GMANHNC
Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:21 pm
#15
In thinking that NON-CH should compare to combat droids...
H= 3000-4000
A= 2000-2500
M= 1000-1500
Armor= 0
Resists max= 15-25
Damage= 100-150
Specials= ANY (since specials don't affect CL)
Skins= Mountables only?
I think this makes a decent CL 10 not to powerfull, and even though on the surface it is bigger then the Rock Beetles, they had armor... Since i have been a CH for as long as I can remeber I don't recall if a a non-ch can tame one of these. If so they should not, and should require the skill of a CH to tame. (I think they already do, but I am not 100% since it has been so long)
Also maybe creature commands should require skill to use, that way a non-ch could only have so much function. Maybe only allow a non-ch person 2 commands a follow and attack, or maybe any 2 but no more.
H= 3000-4000
A= 2000-2500
M= 1000-1500
Armor= 0
Resists max= 15-25
Damage= 100-150
Specials= ANY (since specials don't affect CL)
Skins= Mountables only?
I think this makes a decent CL 10 not to powerfull, and even though on the surface it is bigger then the Rock Beetles, they had armor... Since i have been a CH for as long as I can remeber I don't recall if a a non-ch can tame one of these. If so they should not, and should require the skill of a CH to tame. (I think they already do, but I am not 100% since it has been so long)
Also maybe creature commands should require skill to use, that way a non-ch could only have so much function. Maybe only allow a non-ch person 2 commands a follow and attack, or maybe any 2 but no more.
SkyPreacher1
Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:14 pm
#16
Ok,
I have taken my pets that are of similar HAM etc as a Droid and well kicked droid butt.
So as much as people think droids are cool they are still not as good as a pet. I think the Droid levels are not exactly comparable and they have no secondary stats to fall back on. So that is why they may have a bit higher HAM to compensate.
Let me give you an example, if I take my BE level 65 razor Cat that has HAM of 13K, light armor, good resists in the 60% range and have his secondary stats buffed, He will tank 4 or 5 nightsister at once and not lose a whole lot.
That is my argument for tweaking secondary HAM stats.
GMANHNC
Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:47 pm
#17
Skypreacher...lol
A similar HAM Would wail on a droid, was it a CL10? That's the fight I would like to see.
/shakes head this thread is not at all what it was supposed to be.
A similar HAM Would wail on a droid, was it a CL10? That's the fight I would like to see.
/shakes head this thread is not at all what it was supposed to be.
NancyJ
Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:09 pm
#18
I'm not of the opinion personally that BE pets should necessarily be inherently *better* than wild pets in terms of the CL formula, I think our ability to specialise pets makes them by far better than tamed pets in of themslves.
Wild pets are 'balanced' generally in terms of resists, ham and damage, whereas BE pets can have stats skewed to much better fit their purpose. This is where the strength of the profession and the pet crafting system lies, not in some arbitrary value that determines how much 'better' our pets should be than wild ones.
I dont even know if BE pets are intended to be of a greater CL in a lower CL package as far as the formula goes - IMO we wont know that till the system is fixed and we can see where things stand then.
Wild pets are 'balanced' generally in terms of resists, ham and damage, whereas BE pets can have stats skewed to much better fit their purpose. This is where the strength of the profession and the pet crafting system lies, not in some arbitrary value that determines how much 'better' our pets should be than wild ones.
I dont even know if BE pets are intended to be of a greater CL in a lower CL package as far as the formula goes - IMO we wont know that till the system is fixed and we can see where things stand then.
Zadokk
Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:15 pm
#19
GMANHNC wrote:
In thinking that NON-CH should compare to combat droids...
H= 3000-4000
A= 2000-2500
M= 1000-1500
Armor= 0
Resists max= 15-25
Damage= 100-150
Specials= ANY (since specials don't affect CL)
Skins= Mountables only?
I have a droid with40% resists. Agreed its level 19 - but still, we should then be able to make non-ch pets with at least one 40% resist?
Also maybe creature commands should require skill to use, that way a non-ch could only have so much function. Maybe only allow a non-ch person 2 commands a follow and attack, or maybe any 2 but no more.
I think groupand storeshould also be allowed commands to be used. But if you compare this situation to real life, you can send your dog out to 'dog school' or some sort of trainer and they can teach them to sit, roll over, wait, fetch, do tricks etc etc and then hand him back to you and still be able to command them. Limiting their commands would just be annoying, and I don't think CHs have beef with the amount of commands non-ch pets have.
Meplorium
Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:26 pm
#20
Well my feeling is to take a look at the best possible droid a DE can build resists, HAM and damage wise. We should be able to build something very similar to that and have non-CHs use it. The DE stuff is pretty straight forward and we know those numbers are correct as it is not bugged.
I do aggree we shouldn't be able to make better pets for the CL than the wild ones, will maybe just a tad, but we do get that great power of customization. However the wild CL10s are simply too under powered to be of any use to anyone and if that is the intended level, then it is not balanced with DE. However the over powered CL10s do go too far and really make CH a pointless profession.
Ralfire
Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:33 pm
#21
I think it should be left alone. If you scew the CL 10's you will mess up my nice CL 20's with armor I make.
Then my CH customers will not be able to run 3 pets with armor.
Again I vote to leave as is.
SkyPreacher1
Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:45 pm
#22
Ralfire,
For goodness sakes man please, SHHHHHH.
Do you realize how many CH's use a CL20 BE with armor, kinetic or blast damage resists and one type of special. They are darn hard to find,I like Ying, Yang, and Sprang one is poison, one is dizzy, one is disease.
But if you go blurting things out like this well, you know what will happen. IXNA on the Alkta about the etpas please. sheesh.
Zadokk
Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:54 pm
#23
then maybe the cl20s are overpowered too? the lowest wild pet with armour is the riverside sulfur mynock which is level 33 - and even that is vulnerable to kinetic lol.
Ralfire wrote:
I think it should be left alone. If you scew the CL 10's you will mess up my nice CL 20's with armor I make.
Then my CH customers will not be able to run 3 pets with armor.
Again I vote to leave as is.
Zadokk
Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:38 am
#24
The point of bio-engineering, in my opinion, is to make things better. If our creations are limited to their wild equilavents then all we're doing is re-skinning animals which is boring. I will admit that the 8k health/60% kinetic non-ch pets are over powered but limiting to them to their wild comparisons is totally unfair - especially for the amount of SP this profession takes up.
Kevm
Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:45 am
#25
Zadokk wrote:
The point of bio-engineering, in my opinion, is to make things better. If our creations are limited to their wild equilavents then all we're doing is re-skinning animals which is boring. I will admit that the 8k health/60% kinetic non-ch pets are over powered but limiting to them to their wild comparisons is totally unfair - especially for the amount of SP this profession takes up.
I don't think anyone is suggesting we be limited to the stats in the wild, but we need to understand what those stats are so we aren't suggesting BE CL 10's that are 2, 3, or4, times stronger than what is in the wild.
Remember the devs lowered the non-CH CL level from 15 to 10 because 15's were 'too' strong.
Dalmartynn
Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:47 am
#26
Hmm. Well this thread has strayed a bit from its originally intended purpose. I honestly feel the right vs wrong discussions has worn on all of our nerves. We were really just looking for a statistical baseline for what we want to see in a CL 10 bio pet. Whether or not it turns out that way does not matter.
Right now, trying to average what I have seen on the thread so far, a more acceptable pet "could" look like this:
H - 3000
A - 1500
M - 1000
Armor 0
Res around 25
Dmg 100 - 120
Specials open
Range possible
If there are any more ideas or tweaks to these, please feel free to add.