Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: nocious kahmurrith dna the real information and rant
I have asked repeatedly where the sanctimonious posters like yourself who have taken it upon themselves to speak for what the devs intended, say where their line is between balanced and not.
Where do you see anyone here trying to set the line here? That's the devs job and it's so obvious to everyone but you that you're the only one who feels a need to keep repeating it. It is also clear to anyone with a lick of common sense that there is a problem with the system. We have word it will be fixed. What more do you need to convince you?
Ok, I wasn't going to feed the troll, but I couldn't resist.
Sorry Talthazar I wasnt replying to you but I guess you felt that meant you. Here is what I am hearing, the creatures are all overpowered! you can make uber overbalancing pets! The devs didnt intend For this to happen! You are using bugs and exploits to radically reduce cl level.
So now you want to jump with stupid trolling comments. If you have so much "common sense" *rolls eyes* then answer the friggin question of what is reasonable to make. Simple question, give me a simple answer. Everyone keeps mentioning 1 cl2 10k HAM creature. So that is overbalanced in your opinion. So when I make a cl10 Light armor kaadu with 2-3k ham average is that a bug or an exploit? Evidently you are the expert along with tal-n and sumorex and others. I am not claiming to be an expert. I made a cl66 kimo using the same creature dna and prcoess and quality and distribution. Was that a bug or exploit? You tell me, you are the expert. Shall I give you my entire inventory of pets so you may peruse and check which ones are bug, exploit and which are just great pets? Im sick to death of hearing bug! Exploit! when people dont even understand the system fully yet. Ive said it before, if you feel anything that can radically affect a creatures cl is a bug or exploit then every single one of you who samples dna to make a creature is using a bug/exploit.
So a customer comes to me and asks for a non ch pet. Hears I can make a cl8 gurreck with 6k HAM average but hits like a chuba and with a chubas speed, is that overbalance? Are you suggesting I tell him yes I can make that but I currently only make my non ch pets have 100 HAM ? or 200 HAM? Or what?
Seems to me that the only thing that will satisfy you is everyone stops selling any bio engineered pets.
Once again if its "trolling" for me to ask the "experts" who are saying that pets are overbalnced what their reasonable idea is for a balanced pet, then sign me up as a troll.
I find it more of trollish behavior for someone to jump on a reply to someone else, imply "they dont have a lick of sense" call them trolls and what have you. Just more elitist cliquish behavior I guess
Just a couple of accuracy points:
Huurton Pups are CL2 in the wild. (Someone said no CL2's exist in the wild). They do not however have 9K Health 
A CL 2 is not the same as a CL10 for all practical purposes. A master CH with a certain CL68 Narglatch (ahem) could also pull this pet for the extra damage sink, wheras he could not pull a CL10. That is a practical purpose. The difference is 8.
I can make sub CL 10 pets with 5-7K HAMs and 25% resists with great regularity in the first generation, but their damage etc. will suck. So what? They are tanks with specials. Very nice if you ask me. Unbalancing? Maybe a little, butthey will still get owned in 2-3 shots by most upper level combat professions. In that time an opposing player will take about 90 damage from the pet and 400 from his own specials. They are more effective in PvE, but that's not unbalancing, since they are available to all. It may be a bit over powered, but that is the CL Issue again...
Tymora wrote:
To Hit is extremely important if you care about damage per second. Most notably when fighting high level mobs.
I had a pet I created that had super damage, but To-Hit came out at .22 I didnt think to much about it, until i had another pet with To Hit of .44 out at the same time fighting a fairly high level mob. The huurton missed 3 outa 4 times where the other pet hit every time.
All I"d like to see is a parsed-log study of To Hit.
I've honestly never seen anyone put together a case study on this creature stat. I've seen plenty of "I feel" posts about it, but none that show the relationship between one To Hit number and another. Not saying it doesn't do anything, just saying i have no justification for thinking 0.22 is half a good as 0.44. Does a 0..5 To Hit mean you hit exactly twice as often as 0.25? I've never seen anything to prove this.
If anyone has a To Hit parse study I'd be very thankful to see it... then I'll have a solid basis for knowing its worth.
Dius wake up and smell reality here. You have already stated that your point of view you won't beleive anything until it uttered from the word of the devs themselves stating exactly what we should expect. All of the statements previous from what the devs intended with this new CL rating system, the lowering of the non-ch level and the limitations of the cloning system state we're producing things we should not. Your position is clear, you've been handed something you like and your not going to listen to anyone elses opinion because you like it too much. You don't care less about game balance that much is for sure. People have already taken sides here, the lines are drawn. Keldarin has already stated that the nocious kahmurrith dna is bugged (also I have found it's the merek deaths head) leading to extreme examples of what we're seeing and second of all, the correspondant agrees that these pets are overpowered.
The odds are stacked against you Dius, the FACTS are stacked against you and people who aggree with you. This system is going to change, change into something you don't like. Given how stubborn you have been don't be surrprized if no one cares if you quit the profession or even the game when the changes come around. It's only a matter of time now.
As for Sumo, keep fighting the good fight. I realised a while ago that all of the logic in the universe isn't going to make these people see sense but feel free to keep beating them across the head if you want. There's still enough of us who support what your doing.. Talthazar included.
Tal-n you are obvious clueless. If you want to read in fictional arguments to my posts then go right ahead.
Yes, I'll continue to keep making the best pets I can for as long as I am bio engineering. I do my best for the customer when I take on a job and wont resort to half ass measures. If the ability to make cl2 10kHam creatures is taken away then guess what, I'll miss nothing since I havent made any like that.
Your position is clear, you've been handed something you like and your not going to listen to anyone elses opinion
Well so far I havent been given the option to listen to someones position let alone do any sort point counterpoint to the poistion. So far as far asI know for any definites cl2 10kHAM= BADDDDD!!!!!!. If thats the only thing thing that is overbalanced then it doesnt affect me.
You don't care less about game balance that much is for sure. People have already taken sides here, the lines are drawn.
lol, the game is inherently not balanced regardless of my opinions. Which once again you draw only the wrong conclusion. Why because in your narrowmindedness you only have two options. Either I am with you or I am against you. If you can find any post where I said whether any specific creatures are balanced or not, feel free. I haven't "chosen" any side since there hasnt been a line drawn. If you would like to qualify what makes a bugged pet from what makes a quality pet then go right ahead. or dodge the issue.
Keldarin has already stated that the nocious kahmurrith dna is bugged (also I have found it's the merek deaths head) leading to extreme examples of what we're seeing and second of all, the correspondant agrees that these pets are overpowered
Ohh so your saying the line does not have anything to do with making high HAM Non CH pets. Its that creatures made with nocuous kamurith, kamurith defiler, and mereks death head are creating overpowered pets?
Hate to tell you this but it can be done with any high ham creature. Why not let the correspondent speak for himself. Correspondent says there are overpowered pets. Fine. What are they? Are they only creatures made with mereks death head, or kamuriths? are they only non ch pets? And yet instead of answering these questions you people just want to make inflammatory comments and accusations, well I'll respond in kind.
The odds are stacked against you Dius, the FACTS are stacked against you and people who aggree with you. This system is going to change, change into something you don't like.
And so you advance in the ranks of the silly. Tell me how the odds and Facts are stacked against me again? The system is always changing, thats about the most silly, inane comment you can make. Big 
Ohhh its going to change into something I dont like...lol... like you even have a clue.
As for Sumo, keep fighting the good fight. I realised a while ago that all of the logic in the universe isn't going to make these people see sense but feel free to keep beating them across the head if you want. There's still enough of us who support what your doing.. Talthazar included
You are the type of person who should have to apply for a permit to use the word logic. It obviously escapes you at every opportunity. Logic is questioning where a specific boundary is, Logic is not hinting at where it could be, or implying that it could be, or being vague about where the line is. But please dont let me stop the self-congratulatory round of pats on the back. Perhaps you will break into a chorus of "We Shall Overcome"
Well so far I havent been given the option to listen to someones position let alone do any sort point counterpoint to the poistion. So far as far asI know for any definites cl2 10kHAM= BADDDDD!!!!!!. If thats the only thing thing that is overbalanced then it doesnt affect me.
Actually it's going to be EVERY pet which has stats that aren't realistic for their CL rating. That includes the CL10 pets with around 4000 HAM for all pools and higher, light armored CL10 pets will also be effected since we have seen that armor adds roughly +10 to the CL rating. So unless you have managed to make a critter who has 0 health, 0 action, 0 mind and 0 resistance and damage but with light armor then that too is overpowered for it's CL rating. Even the CL20 pets with 10k of HAM for all pools will be effected by this change since that too is overpowered.
Hate to tell you this but it can be done with any high ham creature. Why not let the correspondent speak for himself. Correspondent says there are overpowered pets. Fine. What are they? Are they only creatures made with mereks death head, or kamuriths? are they only non ch pets? And yet instead of answering these questions you people just want to make inflammatory comments and accusations, well I'll respond in kind.
You d*mn well know it's not limited to certain buggy dna. That is why it's the clone CL calculations that are flawed meaning that almost any clone made has an unrealistic CL rating compared to the baseline set by existing mobs in the game. The fact is though that certain dna achieves hugely obvious overpowered clones far easier than other dna. Even CL11 clones with 10k of HAM is possible with nearly no effort and is out of balance with the baseline standards. Hell, even if you have a CL30 clone with 12k of HAM for all pools it's overpowered.. your acting like some innocent lost puppy who isn't aware of what is fair or not when we know your very much aware of what your doing and how it works. I dunno if your simply trying to aggrivate people or pretend to be innocent.
DiusFidus wrote:
You are the type of person who should have to apply for a permit to use the word logic. It obviously escapes you at every opportunity. Logic is questioning where a specific boundary is, Logic is not hinting at where it could be, or implying that it could be, or being vague about where the line is.
Lemme guess, you only attended the first few weeks of logic class?
in-duc-tion
3. Logic
- The process of deriving general principles from particular facts or instances.
- A conclusion reached by this process
General principles (CL system) derived from particular facts or instances(previous dev postings on the clone system AND the creature revamp's intent, actual wild creature stats, stat changes from pre-revamp to post-revamp).
Notice the "General" part of that. This doesn't necessitate deliniating CL10 = this, CL15 = this, CL20 = that, etc. What it does allow for us to do though is conclude that CL10less than CL15 less than CL20.
If it's so reasonable, why did he only ask as part of an attack. Even then it was only after several posts about how anyone who thought it was a bug didn't know what they were talking about.
My fault, I assumed you'd realise I was refering to BE pets, not wild pets.
Your comment that we should be making "wild" equivalents -2 to 5 CL points leads me to believe AR1 on BE pets will only be allowed on CL 40ish pets.
Is that a fair assumption, or will it be allowed on lower level BE pets?
Talthazar wrote:
/sarc on
Terrific
/sarc off
So AR1 on pets under CL45 is going to be nerfed. Just bloody wonderful....
Going to be? Already has. There are very extremely few creatures in the wild, pets or otherwise, with AR 1 below CL 45 or so.
In a nutshell, he was asking "Whats a reasonable CL 10" (which neither Tal-N nor Sumo have yet responded to). He wasn't saying that anyone who thought it was a bug didn't know what they were talking about, he was saying that is Kels call, not Tal-N's (which is a pretty fair statement in my book).
Then Tal-N and Sumo started jumping on him because "if you can't just tell it's a bug you must be an exploiter" (that wasthe thrust, if not the evact wordage and this was evenafter s/he said s/he hasn't used any of the DNA that Tal specified) and ever since things have been "frosty" between them.
If you read through the whole thread (a chore now it's this long I know) he has consistantly only asked for information,discussed things reasonably when people have responded reasonablyand only respondedas a troll when trolled himself.
I was actually a bit surprised with his attack on you on this page, but he was probably feeling pretty badgered by Tal/Sumo at that point and may have felt you came in late (page 7 I believe?) and just joined sides with the "old timers" (I can't really speak for himthough, I'm just assuming thats how he felt, same as Tal-N can't speak for the Devs).
Talthazar wrote:
Actually Talth, what he is asking for is actually quite reasonable, but people are choosing to ignore his request hence his upsetidness(c). He isn't actually arguing that the current sub10's don't have an issue or not.
If it's so reasonable, why did he only ask as part of an attack. Even then it was only after several posts about how anyone who thought it was a bug didn't know what they were talking about.