Artisan Archive
Thread: Limit Harvestors to Artisians
Some big if's and assumptions there I would say and no real guarentee that the economy will not be hurt or the other classes being affected detrimentally.
The principles of the economy stabalizing is only valid if you can inject enough good quality resource at lower prices which I would argue you cannot even speculate unless you have an idea how may would take up this profession.
Assuming that the developers will see to that scares me. They accidently stealth nerf preofessions all the time with changes whane not realizing the external impacts.
Content might draw people to the profession, but what type of content.
Or will it be just the profession for people who want to make money quickly. Hard to say
I don't usually read the Artisan forum, I am an Architect, but I couldn't help finding myself getting more and more amazed the further I read into this thread.
I also confess that I have not read every single post here yet, I am not sure that I really want to either. So I may have missed somebody else who has already stated what I am about to state.
Artisan is on the path to all the crafting professions, right ? Most players I would think are interested in progressing through this game to some future goal. So, taking this thought further,quite a few of today'sArtisans will be tomorrows Architects, right ? So, what are you planning to do when you get to be anArchitect ? I am afraid to tell you that if yousucceed in persuading the 'powers that be' to limit harvesters to Artisans, then you have just succeeded in screwing the entire Architect profession, which could well be YOUR future, as well as quite possibly wrecking the macro-economics of thevarious galaxies. Do you not think beyond your own small world ?
Bandola wrote:
I don't usually read the Artisan forum, I am an Architect, but I couldn't help finding myself getting more and more amazed the further I read into this thread.
I also confess that I have not read every single post here yet, I am not sure that I really want to either. So I may have missed somebody else who has already stated what I am about to state.
Artisan is on the path to all the crafting professions, right ? Most players I would think are interested in progressing through this game to some future goal. So, taking this thought further,quite a few of today'sArtisans will be tomorrows Architects, right ? So, what are you planning to do when you get to be anArchitect ? I am afraid to tell you that if yousucceed in persuading the 'powers that be' to limit harvesters to Artisans, then you have just succeeded in screwing the entire Architect profession, which could well be YOUR future, as well as quite possibly wrecking the macro-economics of thevarious galaxies. Do you not think beyond your own small world ?
Good post.
But, I think they want to limit it to only artisan professions,so no combat professions would have harvs.
Jahandar wrote:
I don't post often, but this has been buggin me for a while. I apologize if this has been posted before.
I am a Surveyor on Lowca. Surveying and selling resources is my specialty;I don't craft.
Anyway, it's a bit annoying that just anyone can put down a harvestor. Shouldn't this be limited to players with at least a minimum of novice artisian? What the hell does aCommando know about mining Ore?I can't do anyone else's job: I can't cook food, hunt bounties, build homes, or heal people, but Everyone can do my job.
Hell, I don't know why I even bother having artisian. Without it, all I'd have to do is walk around until I see a bunch of other harvesters then set one right beside it and wait for the money to roll in, and put my newfound skill points to some other use.
Yeah, harvesting is a good way for new players to make money, so why not provide an ingame method of allowing them to rent out their lots to surveyors and get a percentage back, like in real life?
What do you guys think?
I don't know a thing about the stock market, does that mean i cant trade stocks?
I don't know how to run a store, but i can buy one.
I don't know how to build a building, doesn't mean i cant have one built.
Dropping a harvester is no different. You may not know where to put it, but thats no reason to say you cant place it. finance it and maintain it.
Drogon Ope, Master Artisan, Master Creature Handler
Well sorry to change my tune, but there it is.
Drogon Ope, Master Artisan, Master Creature Handler
Double-edged sword though. This would limit the market for selling harvestors to those who can build them themselves... except for new artisans.
It would cut down on the resource squatting though.
A simpler solution might be that for anyone listed as an admin on a harvestor... it counts as 0.5 lots against their cap. This would prevent people from being admins on 50 harvestors, since most of the tycoons use all their lots for warehouses and factories.
If somebody wants to go through the effort of having all their buddies go out and maintain all those harvestors, then what's the big deal? In reality, most of their buddies are going to tell them to go bugger off when they find out it will become a full time job for them. Or, they will start askingfor 10+ CPU paymentfor the stuff they harvest, in which case the tycoon will tell them to bugger off, or will have to raiseprices to cover the increased overhead. That itself will let the little fish and new players compete once again.
I think I lean a bit towards the idea of Harvester Certs....
Personal Harvester = anyone can use
Medium Harvester = any Novice Elite Crafter (Weaponsmith, Architect, etc, NOT Medics)
Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan
Anyone can gather resources for personal use, but still adds some incentive to Master Artisan for resource sales as a full time job.
Several posts back I listed 6 things that would need to be addressed to justify this change or any limitation to the current way things that are mined.
Why no factual responses to those?
Look at the artisan skills. Artisan is a class designed to learn the basic skills of crafting. With 1 line called survey so as a crafter you can find your resource. However all crafters are not based off the Artisan tree such as Doctor, CM and BE.
Does that make Artisans miners?
If the Artisans were meat to be the miners of the galaxy then why are all the crafting skills there in the class?
The miner class was pulled from the beta because it did not work.
There should be no reduction in current mining abilities if any class. Now if you want a mining profession it needs to concentrate on additional benefits to the miner and not reduce anyone else.
The vast majority of the resources mined in this game are mined by the crafters that craft the items. Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths, Architects, DE's, Doctors and CM's are doing their own mining because they have to.
Before anything can be considered some facts need to be gotten from SOE.
1) How many Master Artisans mine and do not have another crafting class? These are probably the only ones that will persue miner.
2) Exactly what crafting classes mine and the numbers?
I think you will find that the vast majority of the prople that mine are mining for their own crafting needs and at most selling excess resource.
Unless hard facts can be called upon any reduction of any mining would be detremental to the economy.
The crafting classes do not mine just to mine. They would rather just deal with their crafting. they mine out of necessity. If a mining class is to be created it should only give additions to mioners and not take from anyone else and if all the speculation is true on the amount of resource that will be added and the prices dropping you will actually see crafters stop mining on their own accord and not be forced to. When given a choice of surveying and dropping harvesters or crafting the thins that make them money a crafter will always choose crafting and not dealing with mining.
You need to not focus on limitations on mining as it is today, but on modifications or additional benefits to a mining profession. Limting will kill the economy.
Also what need to be done finding facts to back up your statements. Because I really think you will find that proportionally there is no true mining profession and the vast majority of the mining is done by the elite crafting professions mining what they need for their profession and the minority is the Master Artisan with no other crafting profession mining just to sell resource.
So please address the 6 items I posted before and these questions.
Bring hard facts to the table, because this affects the whole economy and every other profession. You will need SOE to provide raw data to do that. Speculation will not help anyone with this problem.
Since in the test center you cannot copy characters and most don't have time to xp up two characters SOE does have issues properly testing the effect of change to elite professions so proper analysis MUST be done before anything is considered. that analysis must be from hard and true data from SOE accross all servers.
RobbPilot wrote:
Double-edged sword though. This would limit the market for selling harvestors to those who can build them themselves... except for new artisans.
It would cut down on the resource squatting though.
A simpler solution might be that for anyone listed as an admin on a harvestor... it counts as 0.5 lots against their cap. This would prevent people from being admins on 50 harvestors, since most of the tycoons use all their lots for warehouses and factories.
If somebody wants to go through the effort of having all their buddies go out and maintain all those harvestors, then what's the big deal? In reality, most of their buddies are going to tell them to go bugger off when they find out it will become a full time job for them. Or, they will start askingfor 10+ CPU paymentfor the stuff they harvest, in which case the tycoon will tell them to bugger off, or will have to raiseprices to cover the increased overhead. That itself will let the little fish and new players compete once again.
Ha Ha... I got one-starred. Big surprise. I guess the folks with 50 harvestors didn't like this idea. C'mon... one-star me again!