Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan Survey about Surveying
Dex1138 wrote:
"Only people with Novice Scout can harvest meat. Devs, can doctors please put harvesters down for that, too?"
So you want someone to build a machine that will lure animals to it, kill them and skin/fillet them?
This is one of those things that works the way it's supposed to. "Classes" are supposed to depend on each other for something.
*crafts a sarcasm detector with efficiency rating 99.99%*
*hands it to you*
On the house.
Well the point here is taht you don't need to speand any extra SP to get a basic need for your professions, surveying to get the resources you need to just even learn how to do the basic Artisan profession. So whay are you saying you had to suck it up? Same for Scouts and Rangers.
It's not a question of sucking up, it's a simple question of balanced gameplay. I've said before I'm all for profession interdependencies. The problem is that the Medical professions are the only ones that require full dependency on other professions even starting at the Novice box, something no other profession in the game (except maybe ID, but they don't have a crafting line to deal with) must suffer through.We're not talking giving Medical professionals full self-sufficency here, we're talking about giving them the basic level of self-sufficiency of any other profession, which they simply do not have.
Scouts depend on the survey skill for some things. Artisans depend on Scout skills for some things, but at least you can get most of what you need from your own basic skill set. Medic has no such luxury. That makes it easy to stand on that side of the fence and say "you can't touch my skills, since *I* had to pay for them" (which you would have done anyway) because your profession has never had to give up any skills. Medics are bereft of a huge chunk of thier skills, whoever, that have been given away in the form of pet stims, auto-healing med centers, auto-healing camps and the temporary healing abilities of Chef foods and Smuggler Spices. And I personally don't have a problem with any of those (well, only a small portion of the Pet Stim one, but that's the extent of it.) I've been an Artisan and frankly, it's a whole different ball-game in the Medical professions.
It would be an interesting survey to find out how many people only have a single novice profession. My guess would be that it would be less than 1% of the player base has it. Everyone has to multi-class in order to survive. I've recently started 4 new chars up and each time I start with my base profession and then purchase for 100cr whaterver complimentary profession I need. In the medic case, I see nothing wrong with the novice medic having to pay the fee for the basic artisan skill so they can survey and mine their own materials for a little while so they can fulfill the med crafting requirements. Alternatively, get a combat profession, run missions and purchase the items from the bazaar.
My main char has had to take nov marksmen and medic in order to be able to survive while out doing surveying trips. Nobody wants to accompany me into the wilds of corellia while I run around aimlessly (to them) trying to locate a good spot for a specific resource, let alone the 20+ hours a week I spend doing that for all my different harvestor and resource requirements. I don't see why medics should have any special treatment there as your argument is based on a one-profession argument, whereas in reality, every player is going to take more than one profession anyway. Why should it not be expected that a medic has to diversify into artisan, like my artisan had to diversify into marksman?
Well, that may be true strictly from a Novice Medic standpoint, it is not true for the advanced Medical Professions. Unlike the advance Artisan professions, which only require completion of a single line to reach, Docs and CMs require Mastering all of Medic. The Skill Point cost is quite expensive (especially for CMs) such that holding multiple novice professions becomes impossible. Anyone wanting to tailor their character to a support role, such as MD/MCM or MD/Advanced Entertainer, is severely hampered in this respect.
The only way I can really express the issue would be to suggest that Artisans should not be able to /survery or /sample and that Scouts should not be able to /harvest at all. Those skills should belong in another profession entirely. Only then would there be a true balance and more complete level of interdendency. (Not that I am advocating this, mind you, only suggesting that such would be the other extreme of offering a level playing field.)
I believe that such would never happen because as new players start the game, or even just start new professions, each profession provides the basic tools need to learn that profession. Medic has no such ability. I know, I've had to hold the hands of MANY medics who were utterly lost in what to do because the basic skills imply are not available to them an they didn't know it. An Artisan can learn to be an Artisan by starting with an Artisn character and reviewing and practicing their skills with the nifty new commands they are given. The same is true for Scouts, Entertainers, Brawlers and Marksmen. Medics simply cannot advance even a single tier in an entire line of thier profession without learning Artisan first. They are completely lost. Nobody who knows better actually starts a Medic character because it's a waste to do so. They all start Artisan because they need those skills more in order to be a Medic.
Aldrak
Doctors do their job. That is a rather beligernt statement to say. Do you not want them on hunts and such and just in med centers. And your friend must be in a guild med center because when you go to a regular one and demand payment for heals all you get is whining and we have to deal with that. Read the doctor threads and you will see that your friend is the exception and not the rule.
And guess what..this would not be an issue if ARTISANS DID THEIR JOB and hire out their survey skills (which they don't so) this would not be as big of isste.Now since we are CRAFTERS not based off the ARTISAN tree we get no base ability to do that like every other CRAFTER. So we have to take additional skill pointshits that prevent us from mastering another profession like EVERYONE else.
One more thing. I pay lots of money for medical insurance.
People should pay for getting healed at hospitals. Idon't see Docs irl craft meds. So this could be another solution. Charge and you may get mula to buy your med needs.
I think thats only fair.
Charging won't help. Medical types shot themselves in the foot on day one by setting the precedent that they would heal for tips. Now no one will willingly pay for healing. I think the real problem with medical types isn't so much the dependency thing but that they really have no way to raise the money it takes to purchase what they need. Of course there are rich doctors out there who can afford to pay well for materials but there aren't enough to create a serious market. Since this thread has started I've been making decent money by focusing on medical resources, but to be honest I'd be making more money by selling grinding quality resources to holo grinders. BTW a few posts back I made a suggestion about how to change medical forage to something slightly more useful. Let me know what you think.
Another thing devs could is to make it easier to get those resources for Doctors. When hunting animals for meat, they should give out more units. 5 units per kill in most cases is flat out stupid.
A doctor with marksman with a couple branches on marksman and a branch on artisan like surveying on should do the trick.
I think the problem is more like people want to be a master warrior ie. bh, rifleman,tkm, with master doctor so they can buff themselves(self suffient). Any doctor or crafter with artisan mastery have no issue here.
Frijolero: Again, this is not folks asking for full self-sufficency, this is folks asking for just the basic levels of it. Artisans do not just craft stuff from /surveyed resources, in some cases they need /harvested resources as well, that's the kind of interdependency that is the norm. In the case of the medical professions they need both /surveyed and /harvested resources, so there is not point at which they can achieve either situation. It's not the standard level of partial dependency, it's a non-standard level of complete dependency.
Tmon: Actually the Devs have discussed changes to /medicalforage, primarily focusing on foraged items being used as replacements for components. The method you mention does have some merit, though. But it still seems to pull in a form of /survey, which so many here seem very opposed to.
Zarlor wrote:
Frijolero: Again, this is not folks asking for full self-sufficency, this is folks asking for just the basic levels of it. Artisans do not just craft stuff from /surveyed resources, in some cases they need /harvested resources as well, that's the kind of interdependency that is the norm. In the case of the medical professions they need both /surveyed and /harvested resources, so there is not point at which they can achieve either situation. It's not the standard level of partial dependency, it's a non-standard level of complete dependency.
Tmon: Actually the Devs have discussed changes to /medicalforage, primarily focusing on foraged items being used as replacements for components. The method you mention does have some merit, though. But it still seems to pull in a form of /survey, which so many here seem very opposed to.
Let me just say this. Getting money and resources in game is very easy. it make take a few weeks to a month. but once you get going, you can buy any resource you want.
I think doctor being an elite, medicinal forageing seems more for a tribal thing to me imo. token this game isnt perfect.
i do agree that some ppl take advantage of the situation. I would recommend for some doctors to join guilds. Have them do all the dirty work for you. thats if you dont want to spend your skill points on artisan or what ever.
but there really isn't an excuse for doctors not being able to operate on their own.
i know plenty that do excellent.
Frijolero,
You miss another point. Yes we can master medic, doctor and yes master artisan..gee thanks for forcing my character down a direction.
While artisans and EVERYONE else can master their base prefession and two elites. of their own choosing. And what if we want to open a holo. And artisan that goes weaponsmith can. If you open up a holo that says carbiner for example you dont have to drop your masters in the other proefessions and we do. Because unlike other CRAFTERS we do not get the abiity to survey and artisans will not sell their skills.
Medical forage will not fix everything..no one wants to have a character foraging for hours for specific. However medical forage could be a form of limited sample. Because lets face it Docs only care about sampling 1 unit to determine if the resource is of the correct quality to drop the extractor.
Because of how the game is played there is a balance issue.
Also on the point made by one other that we shot ourelves in the foot by healing for tips.
Well that was not our making. The basics of the game give no healers whether they are medics or entertainers a method of enforcing payment. Why do you think most entertainer drop it after master. Lets face it, when I look at someone and say your heals will cost X credits they gripe and they know you need the xp. So what do you do. Not get xp? Well they find someone who wants XP and gets a heal.
And since we have been nerfed with auto heal locations you dont even need to do that.
Now most doctors do not make the bulk of their money being doctors for many reasons. But are hampered because they are crafters that are not given one necessary skill every other crafter is given and further reduce their money making abilities.
Dude,
you can master 3 professions. and still have 33 points left to novice in artisan and go up a few blocks on survey.
how much nicer do you want it?
right now i have bh 0/2/3/4, med 1/0/0/0, artisan 3/0/0/4, master marksman, and marter scout.
All you need is 15 skill points tonovice artisan to get survey.
here is my point.