Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan Survey about Surveying
Another point.
now that you mention holo grinders. is this what this is all about? make easier for you to become a jedi?
my point is, that if a person wants to be a doctors as their main skill. there is no excuse for no being self sufficient.
if people just want to grind and dabble, don't complain.
my holo said to drop bh and master Droid eng. Do I have to do it? no.
Here is a quick solution for non-dabblers and holocron grinding freaks. (this is for medics and doctors at heart).
master medic
master doctor
novice scout
novice artisan
rifleman 4/2/3/2
that should make a solo guy and very independent.
Let me put it this way. What if Scouts had the /harvest command and Medics had /survey and /sample. How would you, as an Artisan, be able to perform the basic functions of your profession?
Since you depend on others anyway for /harvested resources and to sell your goods to, does having /survey and /sample make you fully self-sufficient? Of course not. You still depend on others for parts of what you do.
Medics, however, depedn on other for EVERYTHING they do. It would be like having Artisan without any way to get your resources other than on the Bazaar, but even worse because there are few, on most servers, resource surveyors catering to your resource needs. They would all be getting stuff that Medics, Docs and CMs need, but nothing a Weapon or Armorsmith needs becase there was no profit in it for them. Add on to that giving away the goods you make for free, because you get XP for them anyway, after all, and you start to see where we're coming from here. (And please ignore the Doc Corre title by my name. I'm actually the Medic Corre, for one, and this issue actually affects ALL of the Medical professions, not just Doc which is one of the very few medical professions that has at least some method for making money through the sale of Stim Bs and Buffs at the Master level. I'm not limiting the issue only to Docs, but for all of the medical professions.)
Dralar wrote:
If only a _limited_ survey then I too would agree. Yes, I agree that surveying is important to ALL crafting types (in varying degrees) but that doesn't mean that ALL crafting types should get surveying for free. It's a matter of priorities.
Thats the idea I have. Master Doc is a crafting profession pretty much. Obviously they can buff, and heal a little better but anyone with novice medic can get a 600+ heal pretty easily and a 200+ wound heal pretty easily. There is not really a bonus going up the tree except for crafting and buffing.
All the other crafting professions required artisan except for BE and Doctor. I would assume it wasn't required for them because of the larger skill point costs to start with. To me surveying is a part in crafting and not its own separate profession. If it was then there would be another novice skill.
I think all characters should be given certain skills. Interdepency is fine, but how many people would just use stim A's or just survey at 64m. Scouting is a little different as a novice scout actually has pretty decent harvests. Maybe lower it a bit and give a lot more gain for the hunting tree in scout.
My character doesn't get hurt from this a whole lot. I have novice scout and novice artisan. When I need 1 I just drop the other. All it is a small waste of time. There is no way I will pay 3cpu when I can harvest it myself. There are some people that 3cpu is fine. They don't have the time to survey usually.
I highly doubt anything will change with surveying, but you never know.
No its worse than that. Because anyone that has surveyed knows the 64m range on just novice can cost you a whole nights gaming time to find a good hot spot on a planet.
So what you are saying is that all other crafters could have a template of:
Master Artisan
Master Weapon Simth or DE or Armor Simth or Architect and the list goes on
Master pistoleer or carbine or rifleman and the list goes on
novice scout
And medical crafters are stuck with a sub standard template because they are doctors and not allowed to master a combat skill.
Now as stated in above posts artisans dont survey for mone because it is such a pain. And they make more money gathering the massive amounts of ore and metal required by the other artisan crafters.
Now answer this. Why should one set of crafters not be given the base skills to do their craft (not saying medical survey should be at the high level that the artisan survey is). Now inter dependancy is fine, if and only if the dependant class fulfills its dependency and this artisans are not.
Now it was mentioned above that the medical profession shot itself in the foot healing for tips. Well that is not true. All healing preofessions including entertainers and medics, and doctors do not have a mechanism in the game to enforce payment. And all the player base knows we need the xp and someone will do it just for the xp. Why do you think most entertainers and dcotors dont stay in the profession. Now I am a master doctor and I dont heal for free except to guild mates, hunting companionsand friends. People just find an xping docttor or medic. We have very few sellable products, most that we craft we use but that still makes us crafters.
Now since we cannot master a combat skill to augment our money making and increase the fun of the game many leave the profession. You need to also note that it is filling that master box on the combat proffession that gives you all the worth of taking it.
Now what does not make sense to me is all the resistance. The only reason for resistance is if you all are making lots if money surveying for doctors or mining their resource. Well that is not happening, there may be a selective few but if you look at the doctor threads you will see those are very rare. That would be the only reason to call nerf.
You need to look long and hard and what you do for other players as artisans and how the medical crafting profession is not allowed to have skills granted to every other crafter.
We are not asking for the world, just to be placed on a level playing field as the other crafting professions.
Zarlor wrote:
It would be like having Artisan without any way to get your resources other than on the Bazaar, but even worse because there are few, on most servers, resource surveyors catering to your resource needs.
It's nothing like that. Anyone, even a PvP character like me can spend the measly amount of skill points it takes for novice artisan and a few boxes of survey. Takes no time at all to get them either.
Your issue seems to be that you can't find someone to mine your stuff for you, so instead of addressing this issue by convincing people that they could be rich by spending some time each week getting resources for doctors. Instead of using market principles, you want to make an end run around the entire in-game economy. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
Moreover, is this even a problem from a design standpoint? Should uber buff packs, stim-D's, rez kits, and whatever else requires advanced controllers and high medical knowledge be either cheap or plentiful? I don't think they should be, in fact I think things like stimpacks are too cheap and everyone has crates of them at home. The resources are hard to get for a reason and they should be that way.
AldrakSWG wrote:
Moreover, is this even a problem from a design standpoint? Should uber buff packs, stim-D's, rez kits, and whatever else requires advanced controllers and high medical knowledge be either cheap or plentiful? I don't think they should be, in fact I think things like stimpacks are too cheap and everyone has crates of them at home. The resources are hard to get for a reason and they should be that way.
Actually this is a design problem. Back in Beta testing the schematics for several meds only needed small amounts of random organics. For this /medicalforage (which extracts 1 random organic from the ground) was an acceptable skill. The schematics were then changed to need larger amounts of identical resources and /medicalforage was never updated. This is the design problem. And what I am wanting to get an idea on is what can be done to replace the /medicalforage skill.
The problem with finding someone to survey is that Doctors need resources from at least 4 different planets, 2 of those are advanced planets. It's safer for a surveyor to stay on a beginner planet and collect ore and sell it to an Architect. Even using buffs and being a Master Artisan I get killed trying to survey for my harvesters on Lok and Dantooine.
- Travin
Travin64068 wrote:
The problem with finding someone to survey is that Doctors need resources from at least 4 different planets, 2 of those are advanced planets. It's safer for a surveyor to stay on a beginner planet and collect ore and sell it to an Architect. Even using buffs and being a Master Artisan I get killed trying to survey for my harvesters on Lok and Dantooine.
- Travin
So is the issue then the difficulty of your resources? If as a doctor you think you're going to stay alive with 30 skill points of a combat class on Lok, that's not going to happen.Your argument seems more to be not that you can't sample these things, but that you have harder resources toobtain than an architect does. And my point of view is that they should be vastly more difficult to obtain.
I'm also sorry, but NO class should be selfsufficient. I can kill things with my template, and I can survey and mine things, but I can't make a single useful product. You have to have that same tradeoff, otherwise it's not fair to everyone else. If you want to mine resources and make items, you have no combat skills. You want to fight and make items, then you buy your resources.
Right now, I'm getting resources for our tailors. After that, I'm going to get stuff for our doctors. Obviously, the tailor resources would be lower priced than the doctor ones, they're more generic and quality isn't important. For docs, I have to add in travel costs, cloning, value of my time surveying, etc. Does that make your product more expensive? Yes it does, and I think that's a good thing. Otherwise we'll wind up with every newb logging in, buying buffs and a crate of super stims, and soloing rancors. Then we're back at square one rebalancing everything because PCs suddenly have limitless HAMs.
Sorry, but what doctors are able to crank out has some serious ripple effects that need to be tightly controlled.
Scoooter wrote:
No its worse than that. Because anyone that has surveyed knows the 64m range on just novice can cost you a whole nights gaming time to find a good hot spot on a planet.
I never had a problem with 64m.
now that bikes are out it's even easier. You just have to use your head a bit. i go an extra 50-100m further than the waypoint give to me by survey tool.
this is just another whining thread of not being self sufficient!! period.
A doctor is not a crafter period!!! a scout is not a crafter!!! I had to buy metal for uber camps.
it's like saying a Chef should have the schematics to build and oven or a stove.
Where did we say we wanted to be self sufficient.
Doctors never would be.
Artisans don't survey for a price and that ends that.
But unlike all the artisan based crafters which get survey just because they are based of artisan doctors that are crafters dont have base skills given to all other crafters. I have yet to see any of you address that with an intelligent argument.
And all other crafters have the skill points to master a combat class if they WISH to. If they choose not to that is their choice.
Because doctors have to take Artisan and fill a few boxes in survey they do not have this choice.
Now at least I believe the specificty in powerful components is a good thing. Good things should be hard to make.
What is not right is that doctors are not given a basic skill that every crafter needs and that every crafter gets.
I would love to survey for ppl.
I would suggest for ppl to atleast try it before they as artisans to do it for them.
problem is, most ppl don't have a clue of how much time it takes to find a decent spot.
I had upset at me because the best i could find was 65% concentration ore spot.
I yet to see something higher. He thought I wanted to pull a fast one on him. I said screw, keep your stinky 50k and I still send him the waypoint.
I could see why artisan/surveyour(me) don't want to survey for ppl. I help ppl as much as I can in the game.
noobs more than anything.
DangerGlitz wrote:
I say no.
I'm a Master Doctor. I'm always broke (except when I beg my BH boyfriend for $$:smileyvery-happy
. I know that /medicalforage is*the* most useless thingin the game. And how do I deal? Clinging to my artisan skill tree.
Think about it. If you "fix" /medicalforage, you can go sample 1 unit of any doctor-needed resouce. Great. I only need 16 units to make an advanced bio-effect controller, and I only need 3 factory-made BECs to make an Enhance Pack D. So if I /medicalforage for 5 hours I can dodgearound the 5cpu pricetag on bulk quality resources.
Or I could do what anyone with common sense does; let the artisans do it, and say "thank you" with a smile when I buy from them.
Or rent those unused lots from the combat classes, take an hour off from grinding every few days and go check my own heavy harvesters.
Next up on the complaint list: Only people with Novice Scout can harvest meat. Devs, can doctors please put harvesters down for that, too?
/tongueincheek
There has actually been a request to let Rangers set up 'trap lines' that would allow them to havest resources available from animals. Would only last a few days, but would be great for people needed specific animal resources.
Once again folks are jumping onto the self-sufficiency bandwangon, which means they are really not reading the full thread here. Some change to make the medical professions be more in-line with the other hybrid-crafters would only bring the level of dependency back in balance. Right now the medical professions are fully and completely externally dependent for even the basic abilities within the profession. This is true for no other profession (except, maybe, ID.)
It's not a request for self-sufficiency, it is a request for only the same level of basic sufficency available in other professions, especially considering the tighter SP requirements of the Medical professions.
I feel like a broken record. 