Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan Survey about Surveying
My thought is still if you want to survey than take the skill tree. Once you've ground your way to the top of your profession drop the survey thing. On the way up you can sell enough resources to finance the stuff you have to buy. Think of it as working your way through med school. I'm doing this myself as I slowly progress down the pistoleer path, I've been shedding medic skills to make way for the pistoleer skills I want.
In other words it's all OK with you guys that the Medic professions are forced to have several extra layers of dependencies that no other professions have? Not that I expect to see anything different from here since the primary expectation is that anything utilized to correct the imbalance might have some possibility of removing a few credits from some artisan somewhere on some server that most Docs can't even find. 
But it's also OK with you that you get to have Pet Stims and the healing ability provided by those, right? Or that the Med Center and Player Cantinas and Camps all autoheal wounds? Or that popping chef food and smuggler spice also provides an insta-heal? Not that Medics complain about that, mind you, just pointing out that our skills have long been sabotaged into other professions so they do not have to rely so heavily on us, yet we are forced to heavily rely on so many other professions and any suggestions to the contrary always meet with cries of "interdependency".
Timon it is obvious that you have not read the previous posts.
This is an issue with Master Doctors as well. Unlike every other class we cannot master another skill except artisan because we need to take artisan skills.
All others professions can master 2 elite and one base profession. We cannot because we have to spend 24 skill points in artisan to survive because Artisans wont survey for cash (because it is not a fun task) and are too busy making loads of money off of the majority off a more common market which are those crafters based off of artisan. And if you find good quality medical specifics it is out of the price range because we are a group with no mission terminals, and very few products to sell and those have been undermined continually as Zarlor has pointed out.
Now it is time to put up or shut up.
The only way we can survive and not have limited survey/sample is:
1) All artisans on all servers must survey for doctors for a price.
2) All Artisans on all servers should mine good quality medical specifics and sell them to doctors at affordable prices homing that some rich person dors not buy it all up and sell it at 10 cr per unit again. Doctors have money issues because they cannot master another profession like everyone else and because of limited products that keep being undermined.
As pointed out in other posts Artisans are not doing this as a whole and some have posted that they do it, but 99% do not.
Now since the likelyhood of those two points happening is nil what do you suggest.
Can this game live without doctors, or can doctors have the skills every other crafter can have without a big sacrifice. Remember other crafters already have to take sections of the artisan tree including that 15 skill point hit for novice andyway so it is not a big deal for them to fill a few survey boxes.
Docs, like any of the elite crafting professions simply don't make money until they are a Master. But, once a doc hits master, they're rolling in cash like any elite artisan profession. Of the 10 or so master docs that I know and see very regularly, not one has less than 7 figures in the bank account. Before that they don't have much at all, but neither does any aspiring AS/WS. Yes, top notch resources are always expensive to purchase. It doesn't matter what profession you are in if you need to buy the absolute best resources, then expect to pay for it appropriately. For example, on Bria we recently had 1000CD/990OQ copper. That was selling at 15cr/u while it was still in the ground and current. Now it's at 30cr/u and rising rapidly.
As for "more" dependencies than anyone else, you're very mistaken on that. I take it you haven't played any other crafting-oriented profession then. Try playing a DE for a while. Of the 50 or so schematics we get, 45 of them are dependent on another profession either directly or indirectly. Most of them are Master Artisan, which means not just a couple of boxes, but an entire profession's worth of skill boxes are almost essential to being a DE. There is no requirement for a doc to have survey. Yes, it's a convenience, but it is not enforced requirement. This is a game that is designed around such interdependencies. If you want to solo whatever profession you have chosen, that is your personal choice, which goes against the design of the system. Providing one profession with the ability solo will lead to all the others doing the same thing (for example, look at all the DE's currently crying because they want to be able to manage fleets of the heavy combat droids when they come out becuase they want to fight, but not have to pick up a profession with combat abilities). WS/AS/Architect already have some dependencies on MA, but you don't see them demanding to be able to make the MA components themselves. Tailor and Chef have optional components from BE. Interdependencies are built into this game for a purpose, that's why you as a doctor must rely on someone else to get you the products you need to create your finished products. I don't see why you should be treated any differently.
"Look at it this way. What if every artisan schematic required as much hide, bone and/or meat as they currenly do for at least one set of the resources required in there schematics currently?"
I've trained novice scout.
I've trained novice medic.
I've trained novice entertainer.
I've trained novice marksman.
Whatever I need to survive, I've trained it. That was my choice, if I choose to master a second professionI will need to give up those skills and use the services of another player. Can I solo gualamas to harvest wooly hideso my architect business partner can make small beds? No, I am dependent on the firepower of combat classes to survive the hunt. If I were goingafter wooly hide on my own I'd be limited to paralopes or durnis and it would take me a lot longer to harvest a large quantity of hide. Can my guild leader mine all of the resources she needs? No, a guild hall takes up 9 lots leaving her with 1 lot for a harvester. She's dependent on my mining operations to provide her with anyresources she might need.
You do get a better surveyingrange when you have surveying IV but there is absolutely no guarantee that my increased rangewilllocate the resources I'm looking for or find them in a usable concentration. I spend hours searching for theresources thatI sell.
Will I survey for resources for a medic or doctor if they pay me? Absolutely not. The last time I spent hours doing survey work for someone I didn't get paid and it wasted a great deal of my time.
Eithertrain novice artisan or find an artisan you can work with. Tell the artisan what resources you need and what qualities you're looking for.
Sorry I am in a bad mood, but most medic type pay me to find them a resource/waypoint. So unless you are going to buy new tools every week for a 1k each (maybe more on some servers) I think this would hurt artisan.
BlueMorgoth wrote:
Zalor, all I can say is that you seem to have a one-galaxy view of the med resources market. Come make a char on Bria and I'll show you around. I checked last night and there 6 resource vendors on the global map located around Coronet that only deal in medical resource supplies. The miners that I know that don't deal in minerals only service the medical market. I've been trying to buy supplies off them recently (water, fruit, wheat etc for the MA-level food recipes) and none want to sell stuff to me because they get better value out of the medical supplies market. For example, where most minerals are mined and sold for 3cr/u, the med-oriented supplies are starting at 5cr/u and heading upwards simply because of the demand. These miners make far more profit from that side of the business than the mineral miners do (not including the fact that their harvestors are less efficient at a max extract rate of 10, compared to 13).
Docs, like any of the elite crafting professions simply don't make money until they are a Master. But, once a doc hits master, they're rolling in cash like any elite artisan profession. Of the 10 or so master docs that I know and see very regularly, not one has less than 7 figures in the bank account. Before that they don't have much at all, but neither does any aspiring AS/WS. Yes, top notch resources are always expensive to purchase. It doesn't matter what profession you are in if you need to buy the absolute best resources, then expect to pay for it appropriately. For example, on Bria we recently had 1000CD/990OQ copper. That was selling at 15cr/u while it was still in the ground and current. Now it's at 30cr/u and rising rapidly.
As for "more" dependencies than anyone else, you're very mistaken on that. I take it you haven't played any other crafting-oriented profession then. Try playing a DE for a while. Of the 50 or so schematics we get, 45 of them are dependent on another profession either directly or indirectly. Most of them are Master Artisan, which means not just a couple of boxes, but an entire profession's worth of skill boxes are almost essential to being a DE. There is no requirement for a doc to have survey. Yes, it's a convenience, but it is not enforced requirement. This is a game that is designed around such interdependencies. If you want to solo whatever profession you have chosen, that is your personal choice, which goes against the design of the system. Providing one profession with the ability solo will lead to all the others doing the same thing (for example, look at all the DE's currently crying because they want to be able to manage fleets of the heavy combat droids when they come out becuase they want to fight, but not have to pick up a profession with combat abilities). WS/AS/Architect already have some dependencies on MA, but you don't see them demanding to be able to make the MA components themselves. Tailor and Chef have optional components from BE. Interdependencies are built into this game for a purpose, that's why you as a doctor must rely on someone else to get you the products you need to create your finished products. I don't see why you should be treated any differently.
How many galaxies have you looked for Medical Resources on? I've played on Bria, Sunrunner, Kettemoor, Ahazi, Lowca, and Tarquanis.Bria seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I know of only 2 other Medical Resource suppliers on Sunrunner, and I think I'm the only one that keeps my vendor stocked. I've been to almost every vendor in the planetary map that advertise medical resources, and most just have stims not resources.
As for the DE being based off of Master Artisan, every Doctor and Combat Medic is based off of Master Medic. We are not given an option of taking one branch of the medic tree and buy other goods off a Master,or just master Medic for our own convience. I've played an Architect, Merchant, Armorsmith, and Artisan. As for the money aspect, how would you like to sell a droid to someone and they refuse to pay since you get xpsfor buildingit? It happens to Doctors all the time. Or better yet, how about getting cussed out for asking for payment in the first place? When I ask for payment I get told to run missions, but there aren't any Medic missions. Stim-B and Buff sales are the only way a Doctor can make money, and that's really only profitable for Masters. Try creating a Medic on a new server other than Bria and see how well you can do without taking Novice Artisan.
I have talked with several Artisans on Sunrunner and they would rather collect resources for Arch / DE / AS / WS holo grinders since it's worth more and quality isn't important. I've talked with Master Doctors on Bria and they say that it's hard to find good amounts of high quality resources. Charging 10cpu for Lokian Wild Wheat with an OQ 250 is not catering to the Medical community, it's catering to the holo grinders that have money to burn and just want their Jedi.
Zarlor said it best with the creation of petstims. This directly removes a large market from the Stim-B sales, and these can be used by anyone without taking Novice Medic. Maybe autoheal should be removed from all Med Centers and camps to make Medics needed. All I've asked for is for ideas for a limited /medicalsurvey skill so the Medical professions can aquire their own resources. I don't have multiple accounts, and I don't have a guild backing me. So I Mastered Artisan out of need for /survey, and kept it to run a business. I have played 15 professions to some degree or another and being a Master Doctor or Master Combat Medic is the most dependent on others due to the resource requirements.
- Travin
Look,I think the answer is pretty simple...just get the artisan tree and stop complaining...you cant get everything you want...Sometimes sacrifices have to be made...just like in real life no things are perfect, u have to adapt to things....well...thats all i have to sayto you guys/gals.
-Athenis Stormblood-
You don't seem to get it.
All other crafters are based off the artisan tree so by adding a few survey boxes is no issue in them mastering a second elite profession, and if fact even if they don't fill in any survey skills they are given a base ability. Medical professions are crafters that must take a new novice profession (15 skill points) and add a few boxes to get a decent range and THAT makes medical professions not able to do like EVERYONE else and master two elite professions if they desire.
Since Artisans are not selling their services on survey and are not mining medical specifics and selling them at rates that medical professions can afford, the medical professions need to survey and mine.
So those of you that say just take the skill are basically saying medical professions are not allowed to master professions like everyone else. Sounds like a balance issue to me. And heaven forbid we might want to open a holo and not drop master doc or CM. Because in this case there is no way we could.
Medical professions are not asking for the high survey/sample abiity that artisans have, just enough to be able to survive since Artisans as a whole are not fulfilling their inter-class dependancy roles and surveying for cash (which surveying is not fun so I dont blame them). And by catering to the larger market in mining they make allthe money they need without mining medical resources.
This is about balanced game play based on how the game is being played, not how it is prsumed to be played.
I definitely vote no. If a doctor wants to find and mine his own resources, then buy the survey tree like all the rest of us do. That'sa crockto say you should have special treatment, sorry.
As for doctors being poor, maybe they should actually be doing their job? The public med centers aredevoid of healerseverytime I walk into one of them. There's just a few novice medics like me pathetically patching people back together. I finally convinced someone I know to go doctor and actually, ya know, doctor people. He sits in the med center, heals, and buffs, and makes 250k+ a night at it.
Has anyone ever looked at what usarmorsmiths have to go through to make armor? Unless I want to be a master artisan, have some tailor and take novice scout, the only thing I will ever make is ubese shirts and AUK.
I had to master artisan just so I could make the components for psgs. Ever try to find an master artisan willing to make schematics at a reasonable price?I think I am the only one on Shadowfire that sells them, period.
I have to buy sythetic cloth and reinforced fiberplast panels off a tailor to make any type of armor. I have to buy hides off the bazaar, which is another sticking point. Who only buys 1 hide, and 100 hide can't even make me a whole suit of armor. I have to pay people to hunt for me. Hard to convince people to go to Yavin for woolyhide, Lok for leather hide and Dant for bone. Those planets arefor more skilled players that usually have better things to do. Plus, if the supplies are low quality, I just paid people to waste my time.
Docs may have it rough, but so do the rest of us. I rely on more than just surveying. So spend the sp like I had to.
And another thing, you think you get ripped off for supplies, well so does everyone else. I have to buy some types of minerals for upwards of 25 cpu, because they just don't exsist on the server anymore. 25 cpu, that's insane.
I will give you one thing though, as soon as I am set up, I do make a ton of money, but it's alot of work to get started. I know docs make good money too, I used to buy tons of med supplies whenI was a hunter.