Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisans want harvestor certifications. Please Read and submit your comments.
OH MY GOD...
oh no, i'm an artisan and i can't sell in bulk...
bullsh!t. BUY A FRIGGEN FACTORY YOU MORON!
Bugbait wrote:No, the ecomony IS player driven but it's governed by the Dev's. The Dev's have the power to influence the balance just like governments in real life but the day to day operations are still determined by the players/people. For every 100k generated, 150k is destroyed? Where you you pull this rubbish from? If that really was the case why are people complaining there is nothing to spend credits on? Why are people paying million upon millions for rare items? Because they can, ie. High levels of disposable income. Reduce inflation? Yes, I agree the Dev's would like to but frankly I don't think they know how. If only they listened to suggestions regardless of how unpopular they were.
Gavvot wrote:
Actually, this economy is not player driven, it is managed by the dev.
And for 100K generated, for the moment there is about 150K destroyed.
And dev plan to keep it that way for a little while, to reduce the inflation.
Dev said
Dev do listen to suggestions.
They're just not that dumb.
Message Edited by Gavvot on 05-20-2004 11:57 PM
Is this the Captain Obvious awards?
Srednii wrote:
Finished goods are always worth more then the sum of their parts. They're always worth more then raw materials.
Let me fill in the blanks since I obviously oversimplified. You argue 2.5cpu is a hefty profit. Given finished goods can easily sell for 25cpu or more how is 5cpu or even 8cpu an unreasonable amount to pay for raw materials? It can take aone or two hours to find a good harvesting location, then there's the emptying of hoopers then the final sale. There is a time investment in bulk harvesting just like crafting (make schematics and let the factories run). Sure, elite crafting takes more time hence the greater mark up but there is a time investment at both levels.1) yes waste of points. The majority of crafters are part timmers. In fact I dare you to find a Doctor who is also an atrisan. Maybe 50 in the whole game.
2) cross lot sawp may seem questionable to some in the resource business, but for classes like Weaponsmith or Armorsmith, and expecially Architect who need help, it is essential. Remember architect with 2 factories and a small house only has 4 lots for harvesters, and ore is so rarely harvested by the general resource market. Not to mention a weekly output with 2 factories would be about 40 heavies a week at best.
3) prices would rise, greatly. There are fewer crafters now than there was when the game started, many of them (dare I say most) have gone on to Jedi grinding, or PvP. Not to mention money currently is far more fluid than it was within 4-6 months of release. Currently people have more money and it's a buyers market in many respects. Armor is in short supply and I for one think 400k is high, and do not like the idea of paying 800k a suit. and going back to Architects, you would have thousands of heavies being liquidated, and production grind to a halt on every server.
4) WS may be the easiest to handle it because you work on huge margins. Architects (on my server) sell heavies at 120k, which is about 28k resources if purchased at 3cpu would make our COST with factoriy time and everything near 100k. How many guns do you sell on that level of margin? not to mention the whole market would be flooded with cheap liquidated harvesters.
5) Buffs, Food, Weapons, Armor all would climb. If you are a low volume dealer its no big deal, but those of us who deal in volume would cry and quit crafting. That in and of itself would cause prices to climb. Most newbies stand in one spot and beg anyway, so I don't see a lot of delivery missions these days being done.
6) maybe you weren't too tired, but you really were not thinking. This is one of the worst ideas ever put out. Just happy it's not SOE's.
also, I do have artisan skill, but I am but one of 4 people helping a guild architect, and she and I are the only artisans, and neither of us are master.
Kershakk wrote:
rjbacigalupo wrote:
**** no, this would be terrible for the economy!!! Here is why
- Few people will waste skill points to put a harvie down
- Cross-Lot swaps would be destroyed
- Prices of everything would probably 10 fold minimum!
- Everything crafted would be rare, and loot sucks to much
- Newbs would be waiting weeks of doing delivery missions before they could afford even a scout blaster
- Simply put, just shutup and go back to sleep, you were to tired when you wrote this
1) Waste of skill points? Interesting choice of term.
2) Cross-lot swaps are questionable at best.
3) Doubtful. Doesn't anyone remember BER2 Personals, BER4 Meds and BER7 Heavies? They've doubled (and then some) in extraction capacity since then. I haven't seen major changes.
4) Wrong. I mine all my own resources and run a very successful WS vendor, stocked to the hilt at all times.
5) Nope - because I doubt prices would suddenly soar.
6) Personal attack with no grounds for discussion
People seem to think that should Master Artisan get Heavy mineral class certifications that suddenly the market will explode and die.
First, there's only a marginal benefit from medium to a heavy installation. To imply being restricted to mediums will cut the throat of crafters is weak. In fact in most cases it is more efficient to extract using mediums.
Second, even assuming this passes, if Master Artisans suddenly jack the price up of resources crafters will not just swallow it to pass on. We are not cogs. We'll prefer to pick up MA ourselves and it will all even out.
Third, cross server trades are a bit iffy at best. I have seen a field of well over 100 harvesters that never move. All just extracting whatever appears to be dumped en masse. It's a quirk in the game mechanic and no argument can stand that it's legitimate in terms of actualy game play. No one can say that the devs envisioned static fields of harvesters. Frankly, it is sheer ridiculousness. As a crafter who extracts his own resources I would welcome it so halfa planet is not hogged up by people who don't even theoretically exist in the universe. As an interesting side effect, the reason why demand for architect buidings is so high is exactly because of cross server trades. While this is good for Architects, if cross server swaps stopped, they wouldn't need such huge amounts of resources to cover all these imaginary players. Ironic.
Fourthly, it's not a case of stripping a profession's abilities to give it to another. It's a hangover from the miner profession that was defunct and was given to ALL professions. No one currently owns 'mining'.
Finally, I'd not be surprised that most the people who complain the loudest will be resource resellers who don't have any artisan skills. I'm personally against movingheavy harvester certifications to master artisan, but would be more than happy to see the certs reside in the surveying tree. Resource reselling is an unrecognised income generating 'profession' and even a small point investure like Novice Artisan plus some survey boxes is a small price to pay. Though like the author of the post I quoted, it is deemed a 'waste'. I'd call it wanting your cake and eating it too.
As an important side note, medics and doctors also rely on chemical and organic harvesters. I think that should such a system as harvester certs be implemented, certifications for such harvesters as needed by the medical types be included in their skill tree. It would be unfair to force a Medic to have to pick up Artisan in order to pursue their career.
*shrug* I doubt it'll happen and in the end it bothers me neither way. But you underestimate the sheer number of resources that gets extracted even notincluding cross server trades or non-artisan operated harvesters.
Icecream47 wrote:
i think they have every right to give high end harvestors to high level artisans. would you let a farm-hand run a highly complex farming operation? no.
Where exactly in the artisan skill tree does it say "Miner"?
Artisans are not the mining profession in this game. That profession was removed in beta. If harvestor certs go in then artisans shouldn't get them either.
stop dabblers and give the real craftersan edge over those that dont commit to the points
So who exactly are the 'real crafters'? Sounds like you don't think the doctors, combat medics, weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, chefs, droid engineers are 'real' crafters. If you want to be greedy and get harvestor certs for yourself only then be prepared to pay 10x what anyone else pays for the products from the non 'real crafter'
Stim B's.
Artisans - 20k
Everyone else - 2k
There are OTHER professions besides elite crafting ones where harvestor use is applied. Medic- Doctor- Combat Medic- Smuggler- Musician-etc.
The ability to put down one huge harvester over several small ones IS appreciated by these individuals (many of whom might have Homes or PAs in their lots). Not to mention saving time and money in that you check 1 harv- and can leave it down for a shorter amount of time.
I AM a crafter- I have been a Master Artisan- I loved it. I have NEVER used a heavy but live by my mediums. I worked hard to earn the cheese it took to BUY those mediums and would be VERY upset if I had to throw skill points I don't have anymore towards USING those harvs.
This whole thing is just disruptive- On a MASSIVE level.
The point is Artisans want to make more money- Masters want to make more money. This was the discussion back when I was a Master too- Then they gave us vehicles. We should have ruled with those but we price gouged the hell out of each other AND that nasty little bug with leaving your vehicle out- I won't even get into that.
What Artisans and Master Artisans NEED to be fighting for are things that are going to come out very soon- Like Jetpacks- Get that in the Artisan tree at Master or Eng 4.
Lobby for Master Artisan to be required in order to obtain Shipwright.
But DON'T jack with everyone's game by putting certs on items that a good many of us use already.
talk about peeing in someones cereal- Sheesh!
That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Most high level combat classes are among the poorest people in the game having to squander all their money on buffs, armor and weapons. The only multi-millionaires I know in this game are full time crafters.
Dene wrote:
>It would be appropriate to allow everyone to use personal harvesters, but I feel that medium and heavy harvesters shouldn't be >available to the general public. As it is, highlevel combat classes can supplement their already high income by reselling resources >while some crafters are forced to mine resources solely for their own use.
Actually your not paying attention then. I had to make a second account for my crafter because it is impossible for a fighter to craft and have the skill points needed to take on the dungeons in this game or the higher level content with (supposed) higher level rewards.
Go on the Tempest trade forums. It's the high-end fighters selling looted SEAs for 18 million, not crafters.
Also, last time I checked TKM/Smugglers hacking Janta missions make 40k every 15 minutes. Not too many crafters work that well. Aukum made 30 million on a solid run of Janta missions on our server in under one month. I sure as heck haven't made that NET from architecture sales lately.
Fivo Asia
P__Day wrote:
Gavvot have you actually seen who use millions upon million or rare items? Usually its in theyre sig, master weaponsmith, master armorsmith these are all lines you can get if you want to.
Jedi.
An unchecked pearl goes of 3 to 6 millions.
A single crystal from 350K to 1M, sometimes more.
And of course, that's the Artisan that build the crystals...
Beside, combat CA and AA usually go for a much higher price than crafters.
Did you ever read a trade forum?
Message Edited by Gavvot on 05-21-2004 08:20 PM
Dene,
How would simple furniture items become out of reach? I just don't understand. They don't require *that* many resources. And combat missions do pay money. So the combat professions have money to spend. It's their choice as to whether they will buy the buffs you or something else or both.
(I really have the feeling that buffs are "too good" because they often triple or more a character's stats. And that just seems a bit unreal to me. And unlike any of the SW movies. But I think the devs will balance everything in the combat revamp and don't want to give you doctors a chance to complain that I'm in favor of nerfing your buffs at the same time that I don't want you to be able to use heavy harvesters.)
Many of the mayors of player towns are architects. I had an architect give me a house for free if I lived in and declared residence in her town. And I've had many other offers of free housing. Given that architects understand heavy harvs well enough to make them, I don't see why they shouldn't be certified in them. (In fact, certification in anything one can make I think should be a general rule.)
If a master architect with two accounts wants to run a city...there will be housing in that player city. And there will be parks and shuttleports and furniture and whatever else that master architect wants there to be. Trust me on this one. Maybe the architect in question won't be able to make as much architect profit due to city concerns, but that should change once the population stabilizes. And there's always the likelihood that such a kind person would receive gifts of resources from the crafters in the architect's community. I really see no likely impact on player towns due to factors outside normal econonomics that you're not seeing here.
Housing sells would suffer greatly. That's interesting to me. Since I see houses for 6k at the bazaar. That's right...a place to live is selling for less than one of your buffs.