Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisans want harvestor certifications. Please Read and submit your comments.
if you don't like the price they are charging then drive down the price of the repair kits by making some yourself and selling them at 300cr.
give them some competition.
garvin wrote:
My Alt is a Master Artisan and I still don't think Cert'ing the harvestors is a good ideas...there are more negatives in game then postives to this idea...so here are a few suggestions to think about instead (and I've also seen plenty more good ideas floating out there)
How about:
- Allow artisans with survey skills to find the more rare deposits easier...or when a mineral isn't spawning, allow someone with survey skills to still find random pockets that can only be surveyed by hand...
- Raise maintenace costs (power and credits) on all harvestors, but lower the costs for Artisans with Survey Skills
- Give Artisans a harvest bonus rate for using harvestors
- Give Artisans a hand survey device with a larger collection rate (since it takes a survey device to find the best concentrations)...
- Allow an Artisan to chemically enhance certain harvested materials to create better versions (like combining 2 different types of Aluminum to create a hybrid average of the two)...
And to deal with cross server lot swaping:
- Make it so that only owners can put in maintenance and power into a harvestor
- Or...Make it so that only owners can access the harvestor output area
- Or...Make it so that only owners can turn a harvestor on (since they turn off everytime a run stops)
- Or...Make it so that a player can be owner on up to 10 harvestors and only be an admin on 5 harvestors...set a max on admin #s
- Or...Make it so that admins can only access the output box...the owner has to do everything else...
- Or...Remove the maintenance cost and replace with a decay...
- Or...Create limited use Harvestors (can only harvest so many times before be used again to harvest).
- And so on...there are tons of ideas that people have tried to share...
Anyway...the harvestor cert idea was a good idea, but the people don't seem to support it mainly because it would do more damage to those outside the profession then it would do good inside the profession. And even inside the profession of Artisan, many can see the negative results it would lead too...
Anyway...that's my final 2 cents...And I want to personally thank all those out there who participated in a friendly dicussion of both sides of this issue and kept things civil.
I think the idea of harvester certifications is complete and utter bull**edit**, and will totally ruin the economy. You think it has been bad with not only bad resources floating around and people grinding up the resources to get a FSS? If this idea went thru, you wouldn't be creating more business for yourselves - rather you will be shunned and control a monopoly. Why should people have to be forced to have to have a certification to keep their businesses running?
So I vote no, /veto to the monopolistic, selfish Artisans.
Oh yeah and if this passes, and I can no longer harvest materials I need to make smuggling tools - well, screw you if you want something sliced. I won't be able to make the tools to slice things. I'd rather harvest my own materials cheaper with my own harvester I paid for and put power and maintenance in thanbuy materials from price gouger monopolistic artisans. 
Bugbait wrote:
Srednii wrote:
Considering 2.5cpu is a hefty hefty profit, how do you conclude that there's too many resources being mined?
If there were too many resources being mined... wouldn't prices drop below costs?
You consider 2.5cpu a hefty profit? Maybe when compared to the 0.5cpu or less it costs to harvest it but not when compared to the 25cpu+ that it can turn into when crafted into goods. Let's see, 0.5cpu to 2.5cpu. Wow, a whole 2cpu profit or 500%. Not too shabby. Now compare 0.5cpu to 25cpu for an even heftier24.5cpu profit, now that's looking much healthier isn't it? A good repair kit can sell for 1000 to 5000+ (for 100% kits). That's 66cpu or more. So how is 2.5cpu a good profit?
Mining would stop before it dropped below cost unless the server is populated by fools. You don't have to wait until the market is completely saturated to conclude that resoruces are in abundance.
Finished goods are always worth more then the sum of their parts. They're always worth more then raw materials.
Sinist wrote:
Which alsp proves with your last paragraph Cafa that you have no idea. You are incapable of understand the problems it would fix or even the concept of how it would work.
Which makes your post a 1 star in my opinion for lack of creative thinking, borderline trolling, and just thickheadness for the last 3 days.
You really the worst version of advocate. Personally I don't even understand why Garvin responds to you. You obviously have some stick you like sitting on than realizing that economics are all based upon a monetary system.
Take your communistic BS and go play Sims. The rest of us want working solutions that help the entire community instead of knee-jerk crybabies like yourself that swath themselves in rose petals.
Fivo Asia
Sinist wrote:
Good thing you said think. Its obvious you dont all that much.
Your not understand the problems, the solution or what it would accomplish. Your not understand the positives and you know nothing about the concerns besides throwing out a ocmplaint with a prayer because it sounds good but is almost in every way WRONG.
1 star for lack of constructive advice to the community.
Yee of little knowledge...and grammar and spelling skills.
My alternate account, I was a Master Artisan for about a month. I loved the profession, but decided to pursue Master Bounty Hunter, since I never tried it out before. But during my time with Master Artisan, I loved selling all the great things I could make. However, I really don't think it's fair to other professions that need or require resources to be price-gouged by greedy, selfish artisans just so they can provide their services. Think 10-15k per buffs is high? 5000 credits per slice for slices (some smugglers charge this overexorbitant fee, I however only charge 2k). Think that even 6000 credits is too much for a simple droid? I got news for you buddy. Wait till your precious idea of Harvestor Certifications come. You will see alot more people dropping crafting-based professions due to that fact. If I were an Armorsmith, Weaponsmith or any other profession that only requires one TREE of a NOVICE profession to get, and my business HINGES on resources, and I couldn't afford the skill points to master Artisan (like most WS's and AS's don't get), I'd be out of business. The ramifications of this idea would be devestating to the economy, whether some of you will admit it or not. The only people who WON'T admit it are the greedy selfish Master Artisans themselves. Not all are that way, but there seems to be quite a few in this thread who are.
Oh yes and 1 star and a reportage to a moderator for your trolling. Enjoy! 
my vote: no.
it's a dumb idea. artisans build them and sell them - that's what they do. other people buy them and use them - that's what they do.
there is no reason why a smuggler shouldn't be able to put down heavy harvesters down on copper to take care of his own slicing knives and clamps.
there is no reason why a doctor shouldn't be able to put down heavy harvesters on water or steel to make his own medicines.
people who own heavy machines already pay a price. they pay a high price to obtain them, and a higher price to maintain them.
if the mass resource business is disrupted (which this will do if the heavy machines are taken away from the rest of the population) it is the ARTISANS who will suffer because of the price gouging that will undoubtedly occurr by the drop off on supply and the constant high demand for good quality materials.
in other words - this would completely F- up the entire economy, as well as completely F- over every non-artisan crafting profession, as well as completely F- over every non-artisan who has invested the time and money to build a resource business.
Bugbait wrote:
There's a lot of people here who have no concept of economics even at it's most basic level. In a player driven economy the market will equalise in some form or another. This is economic fact. At present there is an abundance of resource evidenced by the fact theyonly sell for 2.5cpu to 5cpu on average (based on Valcyn) whilein shift. There is also an abundance of cash. Since cash can only come from quests, missions, or general killing we can assume the rate of cash generation is higher than expected as evidenced by the high rate of inflation. Further evidence of the abundance of cash is the price consumables (armour, weapons, stim's, food, etc.) can be sold at. Supporting this trend is the price crafters are willing and able to offer for specific, rare resources.
What would happen to the equation if the supply of resources was to decline due to harvester certifications? The price of raw resources would go up. The price of consumables would increase. The abundance of cash would slowly decrease. As the cash stores decreased the price of consumables would be forced to decrease else sales would dry up. As the price of consumables decreased so would the price of raw resources.It won't happen overnight and there will be patches of growing or shrinking pains but it WILL equalise. Economics 101.
Wow another person among the group who has knows ANYTHING about economics!!! I was starting to think I was the only one...
/salute
Let me also say that I really really do not mean to take pokes at Garvin (well not to many ) but anything that NERFS any profession in this game is NOT A SOLUTION.
NERFing has totally destroyed this game for a large number of people. I've seen way too many good players quit and never come back over the CH changes alone.
STOP THE NERFS! USE CREATIVE FUN SOLUTIONS INSTEAD!
Fivo Asia
Well, 2 cpu isn't a big profit if you are selling say only 1000 units, but you AREN'T, you are selling MILLIONS of units of a given resource, or at least 100s of thousands. If I can craft good repair kits, and can sell them for 3000 credits, then I will make a decent ammount of money on them, individually, but how many am I going to sell, 40? 50?100. Compare that to the hundreds of thousands of resources you are selling. I fully admit thata craftermake more per resource unit on a refined crafted good, but a crafter doesn't sell NEAR the bulk that you do. If you were getting 100 cpu, then it would be very profitable for people to use personal mineral harvesters, but it isn't, so its not. But take that same 100 cpu markup. What would that repair kit have to cost to include a profit for the smith....60,000...100,000...250,000?? ok, if as a combat profession I have to spend 100,000 on a REPAIR kit, what am I going to spend on my new armor, or my new gun, tens of MILLIONS. I agree that there should be a larger array of profitable goods for master artisians, after all who is content to have a near worthless master box (well, other then us commandos and smugglers.) If the cost of goods is pushed too high, then the number of those goods purchased will fall, and fall fast, forcing the crafters to raise prices again to cover costs...and then the cycle continues until they no longer sell enough goods to give them reason to buy your resources, and then they will just use their personal harvesters, because those will be enough, as they only sell 1 suit of composite armor a week, or half a dozen scout blasters, or a single flamethrower this month.
Bugbait wrote:
Srednii wrote:
Considering 2.5cpu is a hefty hefty profit, how do you conclude that there's too many resources being mined?
If there were too many resources being mined... wouldn't prices drop below costs?
You consider 2.5cpu a hefty profit? Maybe when compared to the 0.5cpu or less it costs to harvest it but not when compared to the 25cpu+ that it can turn into when crafted into goods. Let's see, 0.5cpu to 2.5cpu. Wow, a whole 2cpu profit or 500%. Not too shabby. Now compare 0.5cpu to 25cpu for an even heftier24.5cpu profit, now that's looking much healthier isn't it? A good repair kit can sell for 1000 to 5000+ (for 100% kits). That's 66cpu or more. So how is 2.5cpu a good profit?
Mining would stop before it dropped below cost unless the server is populated by fools. You don't have to wait until the market is completely saturated to conclude that resoruces are in abundance.
i just reread this thread...
...i've determined that those who propose or back this idea are just idiots - and no, this isn't an insult. idiot is, in fact, a medical andpsychologicalterm for someone with an IQ less that 80. and, considering the complete and utter non-sensical arguments set forth in favor of this proposal, there really is no question that those in favor of it MUST be idiots.
anyways, SOE will never implement something like this. it would completely ruin the economy. all prices would skyrocket, and a valuable source of income would be taken away from many many people.