Artisan Archive

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P__Day wrote:

the harvester cert doenst sound to bad actually but one thing has to change in my oppinion it would be

Heavy Harvesters : Master Elite crafting proffesions being All advanced artisan proffesions, including merchant, Doctors, Combat medics, Smugglers, bio engineers,rangers

Medium Harvesters : Novice elite crafting proffesions and master artisan

Personal Harvesters : anyone elsewho wants to

Factories : All profs who can craft something.

I cant see how its justifiable to suggest that a proffesion you spend 77 skill points on should have such a benefit before other profs who spend upto 52 points more than you.

I can also agree that people with 40, 50 , 60 lots canbe a problem simple let each account only administer 20 installations. and if someone wants to spend an extra 15 or 30 or 45bucks a month to have more lots, well you have plenty of people having doc alts set up as buff bots and crafting alts for equipment, then you would have to limit it to 1 account pr person and notlet a person sign up for a second account .

I honestly can't see /visualize this even being posible. How exactly does a business tell someone "sorry, we dont want your extra money" and actually stay in business. How exactly does SOE prove that someone from an entirely differnt credit card number and name (like his, mommy's and Daddy's) represents the same person and not get sued for huge amounts of money. And lets just touch on the "administer 20 installations" thingy...this has GREIFER written all over it. There is currently no limit on how many people can be added as an admin to an installation. So 2 dudes could add every players name to their 10 lots and suddenly no-one can get an installation.

Of course, I also don't see why someone can't buy/rent other people's land so that they CAN HAVE 40,50, or 60 lots. No-one stole those lots, they were traded. Let me qualify that statement, however. In my case I set someone else as admin to the harvestor I placed, but since I am a non-crafter I honestly don't know if the guy can remove my name off the admin list. If the guy COULD, then that would be stealing, and I would feel griefing is a justified cry from my lips. If not, then I always retain the ability to reclaim hte land and the harvestor, which means the Miner serves his best interests by keeping me happy - THAT IS THE WAY OF BUSSINESS!!!!

Now just a few comments onwhatever hisname was i cant remembers setup with only master artisans using heavy sure go a head mediums can be certed a novice elitecrafting profs and by that i meanALL profs who craft something, rangers, docs, smugglers , entertainers, artisans, advanced artisan profs. if the lower level smugglers for instance who go to a master having mined 90k copper or alu wiht they're last credits asking for a molecular clamp schematic werent alowed to mine that with mediums or heavy's they would have to buy the resources at im guessing 15cpu since there will be a shortage. Also everyone must be alowed to use factories.

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Message Edited by Darth_Spike on 05-20-2004 09:54 PM

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Sinist wrote:

Np but you see your suggestion was negative to the community. has been made before, argued, disproven. You arent the first and you arent the last to just argue for the sake of arguiing. Everything you said has been false.

And well id rather you argue with why you dont think it is. Instead you cave in to one person, and refuse to back up the argument you started?

Cmon and then put in a woe is me too at the end.

Get over yourself. Take some time to learn the game, the arguments you get yourself into, and how a video game should work.

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Sinist wrote:

Your last thread gavvot just proved beyond a resonable doubt that I will never respond to another one of your posts for a LONG time. You are below my ideal of a human being. Sorry.

I was wrong about the small factories I have been up for almost 48 hours and I am literally struggling to not shut down my body entirely. The rest makes you sound like maybe you shouldnt be trying to argue with me.

Message Edited by Sinist on 05-20-2004 02:57 AM

Message Edited by Sinist on 05-20-2004 03:00 AM

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Aladine wrote:
I don't see why people feel that this bounty hunter is doing anything wrong or is part of the "problem" by renting out his lots. If noone rented out lots, or did xserver trades and it was just the artisians that mined stuff, then the prices of all goods would skyrocket (grinding resources would be 50cpu)and although that might be fine and dandy for the people who are entrenched in the business, and have the millions of startup capitol on hand to become crafters, what about new players, and what happens when the combat players can't afford new equipment because that weaponcrafter is being charged 100 cpu for his steel so he passes this cost onto his customers? That wouldseriously slowthe flowof money into the economy, and would create a situation where noone has any money to buy the goods, so crafters are gonna make less, then less, then none, so then the sellers of resources would have less and less and less people to buy from then...POOF...we hit a SWG great depression, and 15% of the playerbase leaves. Iunderstand thatcasual players cannot compete in resource gathering, that is the way the game is engineered and at this point nothing is gonna be done about that, but to restrict it even more would create a shortage of resources, which would drive up all prices. Do you want to pay 50k for a set of buffs? How about 100k for a new unsliced scout blaster combined with the fact I will have to start charging 50k to slice because my clamps, knives, wuks, and auks are so freaking expensive now. There are many changes that would be beneficial to the SWG community as a whole, Artisians included (I support a 20% increase in Master Artisian Factory and Harvester Efficency) but this one will just be the beginning of the end for the free market. Look at recent gasoline prices...how much did you pay at the pump this week, I paid$2.05 for 87 octaneand $2.26 for 93. Howmuch did you pay 2 years ago at this time of year, I paid 98 cents for 87 and $1.14 for 93. Its all supply and demand, when the supply goes up and demand remains constant, prices go down, when demand goes up and supply isn't increased prices go through the roof.

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*Disgust*

Well, in short, there is NOTHING special about the Master Artisan profession. There isn't suppose to be anything special about it. It's NOT an ELITE crafting profession. It's only a STARTING profession. So, all you "zealots" out there advocating these certifications that are just artisans or master artisans & not an ELITE crafting profession, find another violin to play your "whining song". You have NO RIGHT to advocate changes like this since you DON'T speak for the majority of the crafting professions!

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Darth_Spike wrote:

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Aladine wrote:
I don't see why people feel that this bounty hunter is doing anything wrong or is part of the "problem" by renting out his lots. If noone rented out lots, or did xserver trades and it was just the artisians that mined stuff, then the prices of all goods would skyrocket (grinding resources would be 50cpu)and although that might be fine and dandy for the people who are entrenched in the business, and have the millions of startup capitol on hand to become crafters, what about new players, and what happens when the combat players can't afford new equipment because that weaponcrafter is being charged 100 cpu for his steel so he passes this cost onto his customers? That wouldseriously slowthe flowof money into the economy, and would create a situation where noone has any money to buy the goods, so crafters are gonna make less, then less, then none, so then the sellers of resources would have less and less and less people to buy from then...POOF...we hit a SWG great depression, and 15% of the playerbase leaves. Iunderstand thatcasual players cannot compete in resource gathering, that is the way the game is engineered and at this point nothing is gonna be done about that, but to restrict it even more would create a shortage of resources, which would drive up all prices. Do you want to pay 50k for a set of buffs? How about 100k for a new unsliced scout blaster combined with the fact I will have to start charging 50k to slice because my clamps, knives, wuks, and auks are so freaking expensive now. There are many changes that would be beneficial to the SWG community as a whole, Artisians included (I support a 20% increase in Master Artisian Factory and Harvester Efficency) but this one will just be the beginning of the end for the free market. Look at recent gasoline prices...how much did you pay at the pump this week, I paid$2.05 for 87 octaneand $2.26 for 93. Howmuch did you pay 2 years ago at this time of year, I paid 98 cents for 87 and $1.14 for 93. Its all supply and demand, when the supply goes up and demand remains constant, prices go down, when demand goes up and supply isn't increased prices go through the roof.

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I cannot particularly argue against this statement, but I do recall several press releases prior to launch that said this game was specifically making a place for casual players. It would sure be nice if they DID do something about it, and find a way for even a casual player to have a good time playing.

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As much as I agree with you here and think it would be nice to have the playing field even, I understand and accept that this is an impossibility. There is no way to put two people on even terms in a game when one person plays 10 hours a week, and the other plays 40. If it was just broken down to game skill, and reaction time, and familiarity with the buttons, the powergamer would win every time. That is like expecting everyone who works in a company to work for the same salary, the janitor who sweeps the floors 2 hours a night, to thelawyer who works 100 hours a week until he can make partner. In this game, as well as the game of life, there are rewards for those willing to put in the work.

The one thing that this game DOES offer to the casual gamer is an enviornment where he or she can still compete withpowergamers in terms of price of items rather then market share.SWG is not an uberloot game like EQ, or DAOC, or UO was, it is mostly, with the exception of a fewvery rare high end items, a crafter based game. Ninety five percent of the playerbase doesn't have legendary or Kryat enhanced items, they have stuff made by their local crafter.

There is a differencebetween a casual gamer competing with the powergamer in prices and in market share. I think my statement that casual gamers couldn't compete wasn't entirely clear. I meant to say that casual gamers can't hold the market share that the powercrafters do, although they still can compete with prices. Resources cost the same to mine, wether I am mining them, or that housewife who plays 8 hours a day (I wish I could play that much) is mining them. If i have my 8 harvesters running on a good spot then nothing keeps me from selling them at a price around, or below,what the powergamer does. He or she may have 10 times the number of resources or crafted items to sell as I do, but that is because he or she puts in the time to make deals with friends to lot rent, or puts in the time required to move around large fleetsof cross server traded harvesters, but at the end of the day, maintainance is still maintainance, and power is very cheap either way (1.2 credits per unit of radioactive on chilistra is normal.)

While this split of power between powergamers and casual gamers is inevetible in SWG there is nothing that the powergamers do that prevents the casual gamer from having a good time. Yes you will get dropped fast (as I do) when you arePvPing against the 5% of players that are powergamers, but ya know what, there is chunk of around 30% of the population you can fight with on more even terms. My mazda wont keep up with that lawyers Ferarri, ya know what, I deal with it and move on. I just race the next dude in line who has a honda.

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Sinist wrote:

Well that person was never entitled to your or anyone elses slots so they arent really missing any income they should have.

You realistically shouldnt have been able to place harvetsers in the first place becuase you didnt invest any skill points into a profession that needs resources.

I am willing to quit a game I find the best and most fun MMORPG I have ever played just on the principal of the whole thing. If I can persuade one person to follow suit with me I am a happy person. Harvester certifications are needed and justified on almost every level I have seen. Im hoping the question posed on May 5th answers and eliminates the question, or if not then our question on may 19th will. If harvester certifications arent going to go in im just gonna walk out of the game before I get involved with it too much. I can play a single player game if I just want to kill stuff with the best weapons and armor. I play multiplayer games for competitiveness and not just for the social aspect. If I have to invest skill points to be the best fighter the opposite should be true if I want to be a miner and crafter.

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Cailid010 wrote:

So why are you still here? You've been playing the game for at least 7 months without harvestor certs so far. Leave already.....and please, DO let the door hit you on the way out.

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Actually Sinist has only been playing for 2 weeks , if you look at his first post in the "artisan welfare" post you'll see he's actually joined the Yes side only cause he's having trouble competing with established resource sellers .

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Srednii wrote:

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Cailid010 wrote:

So why are you still here? You've been playing the game for at least 7 months without harvestor certs so far. Leave already.....and please, DO let the door hit you on the way out.

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Actually Sinist has only been playing for 2 weeks , if you look at his first post in the "artisan welfare" post you'll see he's actually joined the Yes side only cause he's having trouble competing with established resource sellers .

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According to this he's been playing since October 17/2003. You have to have a gameaccount to register in the forums.

Sinist
Community Veteran
Posts: 228
Registered: 10-17-2003