Artisan Archive
Thread: Mining without a license renting out lots and harvestors to someone that wants them
hmm just out of morbid curiousity i looked at that post and sinist claims to have been playing a week at that time .. 3 weeks ago
and yeah it does seem to be an argument about money in spite of all the later words to the contrary
this is also the first threat against guruweaver
i have to say many people in this argument have donea great job of thinking through their position and have given us all food for thought but i would sincerely hope that the rest of us take a lesson from this and not try and follow sinist's shameful example.
somehow i feel less agreeable with your position if you end your post with a personal insult..wonder why that would be
Excellent points.
Aladine wrote:
Darth_Spike wrote:
I cannot particularly argue against this statement, but I do recall several press releases prior to launch that said this game was specifically making a place for casual players. It would sure be nice if they DID do something about it, and find a way for even a casual player to have a good time playing.
Aladine wrote:
I don't see why people feel that this bounty hunter is doing anything wrong or is part of the "problem" by renting out his lots. If noone rented out lots, or did xserver trades and it was just the artisians that mined stuff, then the prices of all goods would skyrocket (grinding resources would be 50cpu)and although that might be fine and dandy for the people who are entrenched in the business, and have the millions of startup capitol on hand to become crafters, what about new players, and what happens when the combat players can't afford new equipment because that weaponcrafter is being charged 100 cpu for his steel so he passes this cost onto his customers? That wouldseriously slowthe flowof money into the economy, and would create a situation where noone has any money to buy the goods, so crafters are gonna make less, then less, then none, so then the sellers of resources would have less and less and less people to buy from then...POOF...we hit a SWG great depression, and 15% of the playerbase leaves. Iunderstand thatcasual players cannot compete in resource gathering, that is the way the game is engineered and at this point nothing is gonna be done about that, but to restrict it even more would create a shortage of resources, which would drive up all prices. Do you want to pay 50k for a set of buffs? How about 100k for a new unsliced scout blaster combined with the fact I will have to start charging 50k to slice because my clamps, knives, wuks, and auks are so freaking expensive now. There are many changes that would be beneficial to the SWG community as a whole, Artisians included (I support a 20% increase in Master Artisian Factory and Harvester Efficency) but this one will just be the beginning of the end for the free market. Look at recent gasoline prices...how much did you pay at the pump this week, I paid$2.05 for 87 octaneand $2.26 for 93. Howmuch did you pay 2 years ago at this time of year, I paid 98 cents for 87 and $1.14 for 93. Its all supply and demand, when the supply goes up and demand remains constant, prices go down, when demand goes up and supply isn't increased prices go through the roof.
As much as I agree with you here and think it would be nice to have the playing field even, I understand and accept that this is an impossibility. There is no way to put two people on even terms in a game when one person plays 10 hours a week, and the other plays 40. If it was just broken down to game skill, and reaction time, and familiarity with the buttons, the powergamer would win every time. That is like expecting everyone who works in a company to work for the same salary, the janitor who sweeps the floors 2 hours a night, to thelawyer who works 100 hours a week until he can make partner. In this game, as well as the game of life, there are rewards for those willing to put in the work.
The one thing that this game DOES offer to the casual gamer is an enviornment where he or she can still compete withpowergamers in terms of price of items rather then market share.SWG is not an uberloot game like EQ, or DAOC, or UO was, it is mostly, with the exception of a fewvery rare high end items, a crafter based game. Ninety five percent of the playerbase doesn't have legendary or Kryat enhanced items, they have stuff made by their local crafter.
There is a differencebetween a casual gamer competing with the powergamer in prices and in market share. I think my statement that casual gamers couldn't compete wasn't entirely clear. I meant to say that casual gamers can't hold the market share that the powercrafters do, although they still can compete with prices. Resources cost the same to mine, wether I am mining them, or that housewife who plays 8 hours a day (I wish I could play that much) is mining them. If i have my 8 harvesters running on a good spot then nothing keeps me from selling them at a price around, or below,what the powergamer does. He or she may have 10 times the number of resources or crafted items to sell as I do, but that is because he or she puts in the time to make deals with friends to lot rent, or puts in the time required to move around large fleetsof cross server traded harvesters, but at the end of the day, maintainance is still maintainance, and power is very cheap either way (1.2 credits per unit of radioactive on chilistra is normal.)
While this split of power between powergamers and casual gamers is inevetible in SWG there is nothing that the powergamers do that prevents the casual gamer from having a good time. Yes you will get dropped fast (as I do) when you arePvPing against the 5% of players that are powergamers, but ya know what, there is chunk of around 30% of the population you can fight with on more even terms. My mazda wont keep up with that lawyers Ferarri, ya know what, I deal with it and move on. I just race the next dude in line who has a honda.
Giamai wrote:
ok i have officially hijacked this thread so maybe a new one is needed
huh? no you mean you WANT o make them in factories not you HAVE to.
Your confusing your entitlement to make profit before you master the profession.
Gennie: Journeymen in the realworld make a profit, not as much as masters but still they make some and journeyman crafters should too
Sinist wrote:
The only people who need resources anyways are the ones who can harvest them under my proposal. So how is it your duty to put down harvesters if you dont want to? If your a crafter you need to. If youd ont then your not going to be able to craft anything. But yeah thats horrible huh. *roll eyes*
I honestly have never made anything that required two identical components. I dont know if you can make them by hand because as an Artisan there are things we make which require 2 of the same thing, but I dont know if it has a "identical" in front of it, and I can make those by hand np.
And well there is even an answer. Your out of luck until you have a master build you the identical components. And well there are ways to grind master DE without building any of those droids. And well as a crafter your job is getting the resources to build your product. If you wanted to be a DE you should have realized that resources shouldnt grow on trees. Go play a single player game where you can type "givemeresource" and you are granted unlimited. This is a multiplayer competitive game. It is supposed to be balanced and not pathetically easy. Right now its easy and unbalanced. Harvester certifications + combat rebalance = balanced and competitive game.
Gennie: As of this moment, my tailor can walk down to the local mall and literally buy any resource she wants. Your Harvestor certs are a nightmare. You dont HAVE to be a master artisan to get into an elite profession. Its not a pre req. Your harvestor certs are wasting peoples skill points. What the HELL are you talking about grinding for? Your like an advocate for the incredibly stupid. You are promoting an idea that will mass produce Master Noobs, people who grinded thier way to master and have not a CLUE how to use thier template to the detriment of themselves or others.
NO TO HARVESTOR CERTS
I DONT HATE THE BH, HE CAN RENT WHAT EVER HE WANTS TO
BEWARE SINIST, IT MIGHT BE CATCHING