Artisan Archive

I said this in another thread, but it works here as well. It concerns the placement and implimentation of vehicles.

I have two possible suggestion for the placement of the vehicles in the artisan line. They could be considered seperately or together.

1. Give the middle vehicle schematic to engineering 4. Keep the other two at master artisan,

2, Make experimentation actually do something. Allow it to (perhaps) affect top speed, terrain negotiation, hp, and/or maneuverability. Also give the abiltiy for customization in the way of color scheme.

I know alot of MA's don't like the idea of giving any of this to the guys with eng4. However, look at it from the StarWarsinees factor. Right now, everybody has pets, everybody has mounts, there is constant complaint on how not-StarWars this game is and many point to the over abundance of animals instead of droids and vehicles.

By placing at least one of the vehicle schematics at the eng4 level, many people will be able to make vehicles. This will make them readily available and keep prices down. This is good. It will cause people to be more likely to get a vehicle than a mount, and in StarWars, that is how it should be.

Now, if the devs can make experimentation count for something and give customizations only to MA's, you can end up with a situation that is (I think) how things are with WS's. Consider this:

The abiltiy to make a scout blaster is rather low on the WS skill tree. As soon as someone reaches that level, they can make one, but it's not very good. If that player is only interested in ranged weapons, they can go all the way up to gunsmith. The scout is now better, but still not the best. If the player (that is only interested in guns) bites the bullet and becomes a MWS, he can make the best scout in the game (skillwise).

This brings me back to vehicles. The idea is that, sure, you can get a speeder from a guy with eng4, but it would be alot better if it were made by a MA. Everybody wins! The casual player, or RPer that does grind for money can purchase a relatively inexpensive speeder (like an economy car), and others, whose can afford/want it, can get the upgraded modle, or a different vehicle completely, at greater cost to the buyer, and good profit for the MA.

only thing I would change Vaedross, is make components from other professions, optional. Where as they actually give a bonus to the vehicle for being in there, and not just add to the complexity. Something like this:

X34 Landspeeder

Ferrous Metal: 1000
Non-ferrous metal: 400
3 Energy Distributor
2 Power Conditioner
2 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
5 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Modules
(5 slots of storage per module = trunk space, max = 25 slots)
1 OPTIONAL Light Power Core Unit
(add a hyperdrive that would work like a burst run)


Total cost: 1854 resources
Total complexity: 273


Speeder bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous metal: 200
1 Energy Distributor
1 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
2 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Modules
(5 slots of storage per module = trunk space, max = 10 slots)
1 OPTIONAL Light Power Core Unit
(adds a hyperdrive that would work like a burst run)


Total cost: 1129 resources
Total complexity: 165


Swoop Bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous Metal: 200
3 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
2 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Modules
(5 slots of storage per module = trunk space, max = 10 slots)
1 OPTIONAL Light Power Core Unit
(adds a hyperdrive that would work like a burst run)

Total cost: 1128 resources
Total complexity: 156


I don't see the purpose of adding fiberplast panels, so I took them out. Besides, Tailor and Chef work with the hybrid BE. I think DE & Architect working with the new Vehicle Engineer would work just fine.



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Norseh wrote:

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Vaedross wrote:
If you've read Holocron's recent "Theory of Fun" article you'd know that he hates grinding (it optimizes away the fun). IMO that means that some subcomponents should be added to the schematic.

If you dislike subcomponents why? Are there issues with factories? Are there issues with resources? Are there crate or inventory management issues?

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I dislike the idea of suncomponents in this schematic because they will add nothing. We could wish they would do, but at this stage they wont. So all they woulddo add is more grind, not any fun at all.

At a later stage it will hopefully be possible to make upgrades for vehicles, that improve handling, speed, durability whatever. That will be the proper place for advanced schematics and even rare resources.

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Subcomponents add a bit of verisimilitude to the crafting process and actually make it EASIER to craft quality items...

its better to run offhighqualitysubcomponents ahead of time, and have 'em count toward the final quality of the item than it is to trust the final quality to a single run on the experimentation bar. Properly implemented, they're insurance against a bad roll.

SubASSEMBLIES (engine, chassis, controls, etc.)provide areas to logically link customization and experimental values.

And if you get one with an excellent quality, you can turn THAT into a schematic, providing you with even more insurance against the random number generator.

One of the reasons I chose droid engineering is the complexity of the schematics... the large number of areas that can be experimented and customized. One of my biggest dissappointments with droid engineering is that so little of that customization carries through to the final product.

With vehicles, the devs have another shot at doing it right.

One schematic going to Eng 4 would be ok IMO if it still requires MA subcomponents.

I like the direction you are going in with your list, Vaedross. Going to spin on it a bit...

X34 Landspeeder

1000 Ferrous Metal (chassis)
200 Aluminum
200 Copper(engine and electronics)
2Energy Distributor
1Power Conditioner
1Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
4Fiberplast Panel (interior)
4 Metal Fasteners
50 Leathery Hide
1 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Module (cool idea)



Speeder bike

800Ferrous Metal (chassis)
150 Aluminum
100 Copper (engine and electronics)
1 Energy Distributor
1 Power Conditioner
1Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
2Fiberplast Panel (interior)
2 Metal Fasteners
25 Leathery Hide


Swoop Bike

800Ferrous Metal (chassis)
100 Aluminum
150Copper (engine and electronics)
3 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
2 Fiberplast Panel (interior)
2 Metal Fasteners
25 Leathery Hide

I'm torn between making these real complex like a vehicle should be, and keeping it mellow enough to still be a schematicfor a basic profession. Also being a basic profession, all component parts should be made by by Artisan and not elite professions. Another idea would be to have new components (like Engine, Repulsor, Chassis, but have them take raw materials instead of sub-components). Other cool ideas I like are power being needed, and maybe one type of bike moving to Eng IV. Splitting the difference is a wide area of grey...

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Christophano wrote:

Also, I really think the Landspeed should be a two seater vehicle. I know there are server issues with this, but hell, just look at A New Hope! They had Luke, Ben and a couple of Droids in it!

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I think bikes should allow two and the land speeder four... but that's just wishful thinking. The idea of a passenger able to wield a weapon in the land speeder though would make it more appealing to me. As it is, I see most players having bikes simply because the speeder lacks appeal.

Of the component-based designs, I like DarthRoe's the most. The number of components isn't as extreme as some of the other examples... though I think the resource requirements might need to be double or tripple his numbers. On the other hand, LadyRachael's KISS point is well taken. The probability of Murphy's Law asserting itself increases geomerically with each moving part (or subcomponent).

There's a certain appeal tohaving a "basic" vehicle on Engineering IV and the other two on Master Artisan. For that to really work though, you'd have to add a Vehicle Experimentation skill to the Master Artisan (to give them other advantages over basic model). This would take three more days and four more weeks to code, test, debug, test some more, and make live. As it is, I say keep the vehicles on Master.

If you're going to go complicated, QuickDrawQwuichay's vehicle engineer is the best idea... especially since it could be expanded to include space vehicles whenever that expansion comes out. It would need way too much work on the part of the Devs though to get it working by Christmas. (I look at

Great Ideas

How about experimenting for speed?

If the vehicles are only experimented for durability it wont help pricing on product quality. I know a lot of ppl would pay a lot for the fastest Swoop Bike in the galaxy.

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Vaedross wrote:
MY PERSONAL SUGGESTION

What does everyone think of something like this?


X34 Landspeeder

Ferrous Metal: 1000
Non-ferrous metal: 400
3 Energy Distributor
2 Power Conditioner
2 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
10 Fiberplast Panel
1 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Module

Total cost: 1854 resources
Total complexity: 273


Speeder bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous metal: 200
1 Energy Distributor
1 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
3 Fiberplast Panel

Total cost: 1129 resources
Total complexity: 165


Swoop Bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous Metal: 200
3 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
2 Fiberplast Panel

Total cost: 1128 resources
Total complexity: 156

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Well... keeping total resource costs similar to a small house would have the X34 at somewhere around 3500 total resources...swoops and speederbikes would probably weigh in at 2000 - 2500.

Lets break these up by assembly. I like the idea of subassemblies that can be used in more than one vehicle...bike controls and repulsorlift units for instance. The chassis elements would probably be part of the final combine... but I'll list it separately for clarity-sake.

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X34 Landspeeder

Total resources: 3500

Chassis: (750 resources total)

(Experimentation affects durability - prime attributes: Unit Toughness, Overall Quality)

• Ferrous Metal


• Non Ferrous Metal


• Polymer


• Carbonate Ore


• Energy Distributor (27 resources)


• Electronics GP module (26 resources)

Engine (x3) (share this component with swoops... they'd take 2) (500x3=1500 total)

(Experimentation affects top speed and accelleration - prime attributes: Heat Resistance, Overall Quality)

• Ferrous Metal


• Carbonate Ore


• Fiberplast


• Lubricating Oil


• Inert Gas


• Power Conditioner (32 resources)


• Electronics GP module (26 resources)

Repulsor (x4) (4x250=1000 resources total)

(Experimentation affects terrain negotiation - prime attributes: Conductivity, Overall Quality)

• Copper


• Aluminum


• Extrusive Ore


• Polymer


• Inert Gas


• Electronics GP module (26 resources)

Landspeeder Control Assembly (250 resources total)

(Experimentation affects maneuverability - prime attributes: Overall quality)

• NonFerrous metal


• Polymer


• Inert Gas


• Electronics Memory Module (20 resources)


• Control Unit (31 resources)


• Micro-Sensor Suite (121 resources)

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... and just vary the schematics for swoops and speederbikes from there.

Standard Bike Control Assemblies should probably not require a microsensor suite... those things are a bit too much for less than a full-sized speeder.

And none of the schematics should require identicle factory parts. That's an albatross for the Elites to wear.

So to make a Landspeeder, you'ld build 3 engines, a landpeeder control assembly, and 4 repulsorlifts...

Hmmm. That's too many items in the final assemble.

Betcha that's why the devs started requiring identicle items in higher level schematics.

What is the max number of items on a single schematic?

There can be 3 similar items and they will all stack on top of each other... so that isn't bad. It would just be 3 stacks.

I have been waiting to build a Speeder Bike since day one, the first and lask skill I Mastered is Artisan, for that purpose. I'm planning on hand crafting all my vehicles, kind of like a real quality vehicle...but I'm not charging an arm and a leg. For one, if my customers bring me the resources...I will make it for free, if they're a guild member. If they aren't a guild member 1000 Credits so I can make a little money...I plan on doing this the most because I own our guild hall and only have one lot for a mineral harvester. I hope I don't have to get a factory instead.

I'm thinking it should work more like small houses, in small houses the wall modules aren't required to be identical, only similar. That way you can make them by hand but they all fall in the same stack on the schematic.