Artisan Archive
Thread: VEHICLE SCHEMATIC SUGGESTIONS and complete vehicle info. [Tuesday, Dec 9]
LMAO one of the readers must already be one of the Rich Artisan's and has become a 1 star ninny cause he wants more then probably his 40million in bank, prolly wants to try and reach 100 million. Step down off your lined wallet high horses and get in the dirt where you started from. Realize that just because Some ppl you deal with make that cash easily that not EVERYONE or MOST ppl do.
Hope you freaks are happy with the 10x increase on resources now. The cost went from like what some were wanting at 30cpu as barely reacheable by most to Unreachable except the fat nasty rich artisan cash hoarding types.
Vaedross wrote:
Thanks for the great feedback!
I'll do my best to get Thunderheart to read this thread today and pass the information directly to the designers.
To defend my schematic just a bit: There are more than 5 T21's on each server and they have a total complexity that approaches my x34 spec. Not only that but the T21 requires factory made parts where the x34's would only require similar (i.e. hand crafted) parts.
HA!!
Not on mine there aren't or a lot of others...
LOL The T21 requires factory made parts (not that I'd know since I've never actually made on) but SO DOES ANYTHING MADE IN A FACTORY. Any crafter with half a brain will be mass producing a la Henry Ford, and will prolly only hand craft their ownb personal swoop while waiting on the factory run to finish...
Please do not assume things you do not know, and for pity's sake don't make rainbow gems a requirement for vehicles or we'll all be riding mounts on Tarquinas this christmas...
I actually find the current schematic reasonable. Vehicles should cost more than mounts which theyshould with thecurrent schematic. I don't like the idea of subcomponents or rare resources at all, it will just be more things that can get bugged.Subcomponents will not make the vehicles any better, more costly or harder to make,they will just add moretime spent on eachvehiclefor themaster artisan with noreal benefit to neither the creator nor the buyer.I also assume there was a good reason subcomponents were dropped out of some schematics a few patches ago.
If you dislike subcomponents why? Are there issues with factories? Are there issues with resources? Are there crate or inventory management issues?
Grimjakk has it dead on. Just have 4 sub componets that affect the different aspects of the vehicles, speeds, durability and terrian. The last being the chassis can be dropped in peoples homes liked droid frames. Vehicles will be huge in this game, lets not cut ourselves short by wanting cheap and crappy vehicles, but something to really work hard at to get the best. Every aspect should be experimented so not all speeders are the same. This opens up the market on these for impovement and makes racing actually possible.
4 subassemblies... Engine, Repulsorlift, Control Assembly, Chassis
Experimental Effectiveness should affect speed (engine), terrain negotiation (repulsorlift), turning (control assembly), and durability (chassis) within a narrowrange for each vehicle type. Ranges should overlap slightly in some cases...
Landspeeders (think Jeep - fair offroad):
- Speed:Medium to High (3 engines means a lot of power over flat terrain...)
- Terrain:Medium (Multiple repulsorlifts)
- Turning:Medium to High (heavy chassis, but more sophisticated controls)
- Durability:Best (strongest chassis... perhaps even optional droid armor modules)
- Special:optional droid storage compartments to provide up to 10 units of storage
Speederbikes (think WW2 military courier or modern motocross bike - best offroad):
- Speed:Medium (slowest of the 3 on flat terrain... )
- Terrain:High (... fastest of the 3 on rough terrain)
- Turning:Best (should turn on a dime)
- Durability: Medium (lightest chassis - no armor)
Swoopbike (think high performance racing bike or highway "cruiser" - poor offroad)
- Speed:Best (fastest thing in the game)
- Terrain: Low to Medium (not built for rough terrain)
- Turning: Low (heavy chassis and primitive control system)
- Durability: Medium to High (strong chassis needed for overpowered engines)
"You never heard of the Swooping Falcon, why she is the fastest swoop in all the galaxy. Did the Entha run in under 2 minutes."
I think Vaedross original proposal is perhaps a little too complex, and the later one a little too simple. For me, the target price for a vehicle should be about 20-30K. Cheap ones at 15K, racers at 70-80K (ie consider the difference between your average small japanese car and a F1/MotoGP bike). The costing difference should come from the resources used, just like crafting stations are. On Bria, a +10 station goes for about 10K, a +42 station is 80-100K, despite them using the same resources - all parts are identical unless stated otherwise.
X-34:
Engine unit: 3 similar Power conditioner, 100 Lube Oil
Seats: 6x fibreplast panel, 12x Metal fasteners
Frame: 2000 Steel
Navigation: 1x Microsensor suite, 1x GP, 1x EMM
Control Systems: 1x Control Unit, 100 copper
Trunk: 1 droid storage compartment (Optional = +20 item storage)
Speederbike:
Engine unit: 1x Power conditioner, 200 lube oil
Seat: 1x fibreplast panel, 2x Metal fasteners
Frame: 1500 steel (Titanium aluminium maybe? Light + strong)
Navigation: 1x microsensor suite
Control Systems: 2x Control Unit, 200 copper
Weapons Upgrade: 4x blaster barrel (Optional) (gives similar to DL20a dmg)
Swoopbike:
Engine unit: 1x Power conditioner, 300 lube oil
Seat: 50 hide, 10x metal fasteners
Frame: 2000 steel
Navigation: 2x GP, 1x EMM
Control Systems: 100 copper
Engine boost: 2x light power core (Optional) (25% inc in straight line speed, negates hill climb penalty)
Handling System: 3x Microsensor suite (Optional) (25% smaller turn radius)
Note that this proposal has optional components for each bike from the elite crafting professions. Typically the devs really don't like this because the dependencies are the wrong way around. They seem to like only a higher profession depending on lower professions. However, also note that it also makes use of components from both parts of the MA lines for DOM and Eng. Right now, that's not the case with any schematic at MA. I've never used the DOM line, despite being an MA. I've only ever done Eng-based schematics. This should be a good way for MAs to make sure they use all their abilities.
Another note on the identical part requirement. I can't see the devs ever having separate similar items here. It would take up way too much space in the assembly window. If you want to have similar components, then each box is more screen space, which they can't afford. At most, you'll see 10 or so "boxes" that need to be filled for any schematic. If there needs to be more complexity, they do it by putting in identical part requirements, thus why I've made the schematics as they have above.
Vaedross, so far I like your 12-03-2003 09:07 PM post the best, uses components that are already under used, they make sense, the construction is complicated, butthe materials needed are about that of a small house.
Thats got my vote.
Vaedross wrote:
If you've read Holocron's recent "Theory of Fun" article you'd know that he hates grinding (it optimizes away the fun). IMO that means that some subcomponents should be added to the schematic.
If you dislike subcomponents why? Are there issues with factories? Are there issues with resources? Are there crate or inventory management issues?
I dislike the idea of suncomponents in this schematic because they will add nothing. We could wish they would do, but at this stage they wont. So all they woulddo add is more grind, not any fun at all.
At a later stage it will hopefully be possible to make upgrades for vehicles, that improve handling, speed, durability whatever. That will be the proper place for advanced schematics and even rare resources.
Vaedross wrote:
MY PERSONAL SUGGESTION
What does everyone think of something like this?
I think you've gone sub-component crazy. 1-3 items of 3-5 types of Master level components, some of which (Microsensor Suite for instance) have 2-3 Master items as sub-components? There would only be 5 vehicles in all of SWG.
If you're serous about sub-components, maybe a single item of 1-2 types... that's how almost everything else in the game (well, save DE with its requirements for multiple types of multiple factory-identical items, which I have to say drives every DE nuts).
Calabeth wrote:
So as I am seeing it your not caring about the ppl really your just caring about lining your bank account off of other ppl. Yeah that a great way to see correspondents acting.
Well considering that the entire point of playing an artisan class succesfully is to make credits via your crafting skills... not to make the game easier for combat classes by supplying them with low cost equipment... I think his viewpoint is perfect.
As for my input on schematics... I also think that various sub-components should be required and possibly some new ones from the advanced professions, such as Seats from a tailor, armour siding from an armour crafter, engine from a architect and some droid parts as well for navigation.
IMHO this would not only up the complexity of the vehicle and increase its value, it would also limit the supply and promote player interactionsby creating upward interdependancies. Elite artisan classes that depend downwardlyon MA components, can always just learn the skill and most times do. But upward dependancieswould definately create the type of player interactions within the crafting professions that SOE was attempting to achieve with their original downward dependancies.
Oh.. another idea... instead of giving the ability to perform the actions from the vehicle with regular tools, offer optional tracking and surveying components for vehicles. A droid seat would be nice also on the speeder.. he could sit in the passenger seat and look cool as well as offer additional storage, crafting stations or whatever he was built with.
Anyways, these ideas would help open the customized vehicle market... and of course.. the ability to color the vehicle.. because as it sits now, your chances of finding your own vehicle outside a crowded cantina is slim to none. If I was looking for the yellow speeder with the blue 3PO in the passenger seat, it would be considerably easier. 
There should be a greater difference in speed between the different vehicles. A measley 1mps difference between each model will inevitable result in everybody taking the X34 for it's better offroad ability. As for the schematics, I think that they're good as is, but they need to add optional components from the master artisan skillbox that can seriously improve performance (adding up to +2 mps, storage capacity, fuel efficiency, durrability, etc.). They should also require energy to operate similar to the way droids do, and so "gassing" them up would be an infrequent necessity. The ability to give a vehicle a storage compartment (trunk) with the x34 having the highest storage capacity (equivilent to that of a backpack) would help differentiate between the models. And if it isn't already possible with craftable speeders, they should be customizable with both color and some physical features (like blasters are with scopes, barrels and stocks).