Artisan Archive

What the recipe uses is inmaterial. The important part is to make sure various performance numbers can be experimented. Subcomponents should be added only where they help make a more robust experimentation model.

Just adding components, for increasing complexity is.. how to put it? ineffectual.

Optional armorplates from armorsmiths.

Optional master artisan components that give some benefit. Like better handling.

Optional Droid or architect storage modules.

Generator turbines, power cores, or even better, a master level true vehicular engine should be required.

Customization of color, and maybe some visual components (like WS get to experiment with the looks of the guns)

Don't add complexity for complexity sake. It must mean something, or you are just adding tedium.

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Vaedross wrote:
I'm thinking it should work more like small houses, in small houses the wall modules aren't required to be identical, only similar. That way you can make them by hand but they all fall in the same stack on the schematic.

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Excellent... I wasn't aware of that. In droid schematics all the stackable items have to be identical too.

The two things I want out of a schematic are a complete set of working experimental values and that the schematic "makes sense" for what I'm working on. However they do that is fine with me... I just think that, as these are the pinnacle of the Artisan's skill, they should be a bit more complex than a suit of bone armor.

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MSP0 wrote:

Just adding components, for increasing complexity is.. how to put it? ineffectual.

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Actually, adding subcomponents give you the ability to hedge your bets against less than "very good" results on the final experimentation run.It gives you the chance to use ALL your experimentation points on each subcomponent, rather than having to split 'em up between several different attributes during the final assemble.

And... I like the idea of being able to make up a crate full of universal "repulsorlifts" or "bike controls" ahead of time. That REALLY cuts down on the tedium.

I hate to say this, but tiny little belt worn PSG's require 4-6 sub-components. A speeder should require about 20-30 sub-components. I wouldn't require them to be identical, but anyone who has made a PSG will attest to the fact that factories are the only way to go. Vehicles should be just as difficult to make. And should be made in a factory.

My 2c

i agree the should have about 10-15 sub componets.

My 2 creds,

2 Electronics Gp, and 4 energy distributer for the computer core and in vehilce wiring.

2 micro sensor suits, keep tabs on all the vehicles funcitons,

droid storage optional for storage, 1 on a bkie up to 3 on a landspeeder.

Turbines, things gotta run on somehting, id say each lvl goes up by one one for the small bikes 2 for the land speeder, copper 2000, AL 1500, Radioactive gas 100

Anti grav module, Iron 300, 500

interior, leathery hide 100 , 300

outter shell, identicle factory sides, Aluminum 500, bikes need 2 land speeders 5

Engine and electronics, copper 500, 750

Frame Aluminum 1500, 3500

Cooling, and moving parts lubrication, Lubricating oil 500, 1000

Wiring harness, Fiberplast 400, 800

I do think the things should also have a power need rate, i think a perfect thing could be radio active power.

It would add compelexity, all master lvl stuff need many different factory parts. it would ramp up complexity and make them more interesting.

Je'Cy Dax, Merchant

Forgive me for not reading the last page of this thread.

I like the idea of giving MAs the vehicles, but why not make swoops an Eng4 schematic? It's the least complex (continuity wise). Engine + Seat = Swoop.

Everything else in the game is given in stages in terms of complexity (droids, weapons, food, clothes, armor, etc). Why go from nothing to all in terms of vehicle schematics?

Make the swoop Eng 4 (ie the most common ), but add more hindrance to off road. Make it so you'd NEVER take one to Dath, for instance. Advanced planet should require an advanced vehicle (or mount).

Make Land Speeders and Speeder Bikes more complex, more desireable to a swoop.Add an optionalgun to Speeder Bikes. Right now, they're just sleeker looking bikes. Make them different. The Land Speeders are already better up hill. Good. Add trunk place (ala droid storage). Makes more sense to store things in your trunk than a droid anyway.

If Swoops are moved to Eng 4, you can still add an Advanced Swoop to MA eventually (faster, more durable, better terrain, etc) for people who want swoops like in the Clone Wars cartoon, not the farmer boy Swoop from Episode 2 (how nice of one do you think Owen would be able to afford?).

/throws 2 credits on the table

Myrddin

up the metal requirements about 500 each, add small amounts of liquid petrolium (oil) and liquid petrofuel (gas) and maybe 5-15 units of hide (upholstry), reduce the amount of MA components uses (try 1 for swoop, 2 for speederbike, and 3 for landspeeder) and you should have it about right

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Vaedross wrote:
MY PERSONAL SUGGESTION

What does everyone think of something like this?


X34 Landspeeder

Ferrous Metal: 1000
Non-ferrous metal: 400
3 Energy Distributor
2 Power Conditioner
2 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
10 Fiberplast Panel
1 OPTIONAL Droid Storage Module

Total cost: 1854 resources
Total complexity: 273


Speeder bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous metal: 200
1 Energy Distributor
1 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
1 Electronics GP
3 Fiberplast Panel

Total cost: 1129 resources
Total complexity: 165


Swoop Bike

Ferrous Metal: 800
Non-ferrous Metal: 200
3 Power Conditioner
1 Control Unit
1 Micro Sensor Suite
2 Fiberplast Panel

Total cost: 1128 resources
Total complexity: 156

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BlueMorgoth wrote:
having the lower-level vehicle in Eng IV depending on a higher-level (ie MA) components is just not going to happen. That makes it impossible to bootstrap the system to get moving for lower level characters (particularly starting up a new server).

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It wouldn't make it impossible to build, but it would make it impossible to use vehicles as a grinding item. That is a good thing.

Except that note that the devs have completely avoided this pattern everywhere in the game. Nowhere else do you see a schematic for an item that has a dependency on an item from higher in the tree. - particularly for Master items. While DE has dependencies for items at the same level in the tree (Socket Cluster in Production III required by the R2 droid in Blueprints III), there is no upwards skill dependency. For that reason alone the devs wouldn't take that suggestion to heart.

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WerrtZer wrote:

I see so many people in here asking for experimentation to increase speed and acceleration, without realising that vehicles already push the software code to it's limits in terms ofspawn radiusand load radius.

For instance, I am blowing along on my swoop at X m/sec toward my home city. At the max speed the Devs are allowing, the buildings will load (hopefully) just as I am entering the city limits. Now if you push this number up, you have made it so that I could reach my house before it (or any of the structures between it and the city limit) have even loaded. In terms or realism this is simply stupid; I've just driven straight through city hall, a cloning centre and 4 houses and have arrived to where my front door should be, but it hasn't had a chance to load yet.

The vehicles speed will be at the maximum allowed under the base code of the game, so CANNOT be increased. Decreasing it is the only option in terms of allowing experimetation to play any roll in the final quality. However this will lead to a lot of vehicles crafted from lesser quality resources to go unsold as we all know EVERYONE will want the fastest possible. Things like terrain negotiation, and durabilityshould allow experimentation to affect them, but so far as I can see, speed is not gonna change...

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The vehicles on Test are Probably as fast as they're gonna get - they would be 100% experimented.

Heck, they all had the same speed at first... don't judge thefinal version bythe testversion. At least not until they actually say when they're going to do the update.

Ok,I have to add my 2 credits here. There are some people who are going a little overboard right now with wanting this and that added to vehicles to make them more "complex", hence able to charge more for them and keep the price high. Which basically your shooting yourselves in the foot.

Now I remember seeing something that these vehicles are the basic release of more to come later on. So these are the CDEF of vehicles, but several people want toturn whats supposed to be a basic vehicleinto something elaborate, expensive and out of reach of the causal player. And really there is no reason that these starter vehicles should cost more than a small house. Now when the space expansion comes in along with possibly other types of vehicles and space ships, then things can get a little more elaborate. Because Space ships are going to be more elaborate and complex. And really my thought iswhen the ship builder profession comes in, then I have no problem with it requiring the person to be a Master Artisanin order to train for Novice Ship Builder or whatever it will be called.

Plus you going to have to remember there is always going to be market for vehicles, if some of you haven't noticed, they are damagable and destroyable. So thinkof thecausal playerwho can only play a couple of hours a day or every other day. They would have to grind missions for one or two weeks in order to be able to buy one. And then if they happen toget into a PvP battle and get incapped and their vehicle is out the other person can sit there and destroy their vehicle in a couple of minutes what took them two weeks to be able to afford. And do you think that person is going to grind missions again for another two weeks to get another vehicle? I doubt it, most likely they will quit the game and move on to something else.

But at most a vehicle should only take about 1500-2000 ferrous, 400-500 non-ferrous and maybe at most some hide for seat covers and possibly optional droid storage units in the X-34. But lets keep these basic, and fairly easy to produce, because there will always be a market for them.

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MSP0 wrote:

What you say is true if:

a) Experimentation matters for the item you are making

b) The component's experimentation actually impacts the end result.

There are a number of items that simply ignore the experimentation of subcomponents. I just want to make sure this doesn't happen with such a cool thing as vehicles.

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Yes, but those items are broken. I'm a Master Droid Engineer... I'm well familiar with broken (and capped) experimentation effects.

So, yeah, I agree. The experimental values have to be allowed to impact the vehicle's stats throughout the whole range of 0-100%.

And the quality of subcomponents has to be taken into account for each combine.

I see so many people in here asking for experimentation to increase speed and acceleration, without realising that vehicles already push the software code to it's limits in terms ofspawn radiusand load radius.

For instance, I am blowing along on my swoop at X m/sec toward my home city. At the max speed the Devs are allowing, the buildings will load (hopefully) just as I am entering the city limits. Now if you push this number up, you have made it so that I could reach my house before it (or any of the structures between it and the city limit) have even loaded. In terms or realism this is simply stupid; I've just driven straight through city hall, a cloning centre and 4 houses and have arrived to where my front door should be, but it hasn't had a chance to load yet.

The vehicles speed will be at the maximum allowed under the base code of the game, so CANNOT be increased. Decreasing it is the only option in terms of allowing experimetation to play any roll in the final quality. However this will lead to a lot of vehicles crafted from lesser quality resources to go unsold as we all know EVERYONE will want the fastest possible. Things like terrain negotiation, and durabilityshould allow experimentation to affect them, but so far as I can see, speed is not gonna change...