Artisan Archive
Thread: New
ninerOciag
Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:11 pm
#27
"You certainly know how to make friends and influence people"
I read that book and i must tell you, that shirt you wearing, wonderfull...
game on!
I read that book and i must tell you, that shirt you wearing, wonderfull...
game on!
RasalTheWise
Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:33 pm
#28
ninerOciag wrote:
"You certainly know how to make friends and influence people"
I read that book and i must tell you, that shirt you wearing, wonderfull...
game on!
lol
Xrystal
Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:39 pm
#29
ninerOciag wrote:
sigh, ok lol
Im really not trying to insult anyone thats just how i feel about the situation. Im at work right now so i cant put an hour into creating comparisions but when i get home and have time i will.
Im a DE, I enjoy making droids. I wish that it was more intended complication and that there was a way to seperate yourself from any of the other average DE on your respective server but the truth of the matter is there isnt, as i hope i will be able to show.
Well in the real world with 2 identical items on sale at 2 different outlets .. which is the most popular ??
1. Location
2. Customer Service
3. That special Uniqueness (in the store itself that is)
Whenever I talk to anyone that has bought from my vendors they tell me they cannot find any other Droid Engineer thats publicly selling. Which surprises me when I see the list of Droid Engineers listed on this website. *shrugs* Probably explains why I do so well I guess. Although the last few days sales have been bad but then weekends tend to be when my best sales are so I plan for that.
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:27 pm
#30
ninerOciag wrote:
If you would like to throw around insults then do whatever makes your heart content.
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 01:47 PM
Ok Hun, since you ask....
I think you are a total tosser (Tm Uk)
However..keep digging by all means..it is your right. People who are in a hole, and are told so, generally
have the sense to stop digging..but apparently you don't.
As to entering into a debate with you, I would rather not give you further opportunity to spout your
nonsensical twaddle. Others apparently want to hear you back up your arguement, thats up to them.
May all your problems be little ones.
ninerOciag
Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:43 pm
#31
JenDen,
So i started to write something out and decided a 15 page post going through all the professions would be pointless.
Without trying to deflect the burden of proof back on to you can i ask; What Elite crafting professions are less complicated then DE?
Please dont include
Smuggler(Hybrid profession not really a crafter)
Shipwright(I have to concede on this one, its pretty simple.)
Ranger (lol)
Combat medic (as far as i know CU nerfed or moved thier crafting ability)
Now as for the rest,
tailor im not to sure about but its pretty clear to me that the rest are a lot more difficult.
So out of
Architect
BE
Ws
AS
Chef
Which is less complicated then DE?
You cant include bugs as making the profession complicated because its not intended, especially on something thats useless like a structure maitence module. Module stacking could be difficult, i guess, but i have been able to craft level 6 of every module since my second week as a DE so i dont have much experince with that, i read the droid guide and he said once u hit level 6 no need to worry about stacking so i didnt. Since quality doesnt matter you only need the required resources to make a level 6 modules, which isnt complicated just takes credits or a harvestor.
So out of 7 true crafting professions(tailor not included since i dont really know if what they do is difficult or not, i have a feeling the hard part for tailor comes from a BE but i dont know) i rank DE 6 of 7 in difficulty. With a large gap between 5 + 6.
So i started to write something out and decided a 15 page post going through all the professions would be pointless.
Without trying to deflect the burden of proof back on to you can i ask; What Elite crafting professions are less complicated then DE?
Please dont include
Smuggler(Hybrid profession not really a crafter)
Shipwright(I have to concede on this one, its pretty simple.)
Ranger (lol)
Combat medic (as far as i know CU nerfed or moved thier crafting ability)
Now as for the rest,
tailor im not to sure about but its pretty clear to me that the rest are a lot more difficult.
So out of
Architect
BE
Ws
AS
Chef
Which is less complicated then DE?
You cant include bugs as making the profession complicated because its not intended, especially on something thats useless like a structure maitence module. Module stacking could be difficult, i guess, but i have been able to craft level 6 of every module since my second week as a DE so i dont have much experince with that, i read the droid guide and he said once u hit level 6 no need to worry about stacking so i didnt. Since quality doesnt matter you only need the required resources to make a level 6 modules, which isnt complicated just takes credits or a harvestor.
So out of 7 true crafting professions(tailor not included since i dont really know if what they do is difficult or not, i have a feeling the hard part for tailor comes from a BE but i dont know) i rank DE 6 of 7 in difficulty. With a large gap between 5 + 6.
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 04:45 PM
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 04:54 PM
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 04:54 PM
Jenden
Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:02 pm
#32
ninerOciag wrote:
JenDen,
So i started to write something out and decided a 15 page post going through all the professions would be pointless.
Without trying to deflect the burden of proof back on to you can i ask; What Elite crafting professions are less complicated then DE?
Please dont include
Smuggler(Hybrid profession not really a crafter)
Shipwright(I have to concede on this one, its pretty simple.)
Ranger (lol)
Combat medic (as far as i know CU nerfed or moved thier crafting ability)
Now as for the rest,
tailor im not to sure about but its pretty clear to me that the rest are a lot more difficult.
So out of
Architect
BE
Ws
AS
Chef
Which is less complicated then DE?
So out of 7 true crafting professions(tailor not inclu large gap between rank 5 ded since i dont really know if what they do is difficult or not, i have a feeling the hard part for tailor comes from a BE but i dont know) i rank DE 6 of 7 in difficulty. With aand rank 6.Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 04:45 PM
Leaving out things that all professions have in common (specific resources, bugs and resource quality).
Architect: Only real complexity with architect lies in knowing what the different structures look like and which ones can be placed on which planets (equivalent to a DE needing to know what modules do and which ones can be used in specific droids).
BE: I haven't really done any BE or done much research on it, so I can't make any qualified remarks
WS: the whole certification versus skill box thing has added in a new element, but thats really no different than astromechs and pilot skill levels. Aside from that its just a matter of gathering the appropriate resources and stocking a vendor.
AS: Pretty complex with the whole segment/core system they've got, but thats not really much different than our chassis/module system. The variety of requirements and levels adds some complexity, but no more than we have to deal with with our astromech droids and flight computers.
Chef: Chef is pretty much the same complexity of DE if you removed the actual droid portion from it (and just had modules). They have a wider variety, but that doesn't add too much in complexity when you factor in the module combinations in droids.
The points above pretty much cancel all the professions out, but then to add into that DE has droid programming (2 interfaces), thousands of module combinations, personalities, etc...
Also, understanding the actual function of the module is much more complicated. Take weapons for example, you have damage, speed, range bonuses, etc. All straight forward. Droids you have "combat ratings" and "creature harvest ratings" and "Experimental quality"... all vague terms that don't immediately connect with a value in game.
Message Edited by Jenden on 06-24-2005 04:27 PM
ninerOciag
Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:46 pm
#33
"Leaving out things that all professions have in common (specific resources, bugs and resource quality).
Architect: Only real complexity with architect lies in knowing what the different structures look like and which ones can be placed on which planets (equivalent to a DE needing to know what modules do and which ones can be used in specific droids).
BE: I haven't really done any BE or done much research on it, so I can't make any qualified remarks
WS: the whole certification versus skill box thing has added in a new element, but thats really no different than astromechs and pilot skill levels. Aside from that its just a matter of gathering the appropriate resources and stocking a vendor.
AS: Pretty complex with the whole segment/core system they've got, but thats not really much different than our chassis/module system. The variety of requirements and levels adds some complexity, but no more than we have to deal with with our astromech droids and flight computers.
Chef: Chef is pretty much the same complexity of DE if you removed the actual droid portion from it (and just had modules). They have a wider variety, but that doesn't add too much in complexity when you factor in the module combinations in droids."
Architect - May have to give u that one
BE - Just glance at thier forum real quick. Its gotten simplier but its still very complciated.
WS: Every subcomponet that a weapon needs, quality matters. They need to expeirement on a vairiety of things in every subcomponent. They have to know what to expeirment on and there is no anwser. They debate it hotly in that forum all the time. Speed vs damage, Dps vs SAc, etc...
In the final build they have 5 maybe 6 lines of expiermentation to use. They have to know every professions different weapons and what is important for that paticular person who would use that type of weapon. You could make 100 t21's and never get the perfect combination, i got the best possible combat modules on my server in the second try, repiar kits and ISD are somewhat difficult but thats only two items that we make, one of which is not that usefull(still a good seller tho).
AS: Since the CU armor has gotten somewhat similar and I think your comparisons are valid. It is however a much harder profession due to resources requirements, time to do factory runs, and in the end it is more complex because quality/resources/experimentation matter at every phase of the crafting level.
Chef: Once again i fall back to resources and expiermentation matter at every phase. They have less choice/complexity in thier final build but a commited crafter can make something better then a new one or a not so commited crafter.
"The points above pretty much cancel all the professions out, but then to add into that DE has droid programming (2 interfaces), thousands of module combinations, personalities, etc..."
I have never had to do any droid programming in my crafting. I assume you mean using droids can be complicated but thats a different argument. As for the combinations of modules thats just a choice you make, its still plug in 1 here or 3 there and they all are pretty simple to craft. Get best resource you can, drop in slot, max out single line of expiermentaion, and a factory run. A greater selection of how you make a final droid to meet a customers needs isnt complex craftings it more like complex marketing.
"Also, understanding the actual function of the module is much more complicated. Take weapons for example, you have damage, speed, range bonuses, etc. All straight forward. Droids you have "combat ratings" and "creature harvest ratings" and "Experimental quality"... all vague terms that don't immediately connect with a value in game."
I think those have more to do with flaws in the system then complexity. I can hit a 1xx creature harvest rating pretty simply but i agree that explaining it to a customer is difficult.
I would rather have complexity in crafting then complexity it marketing my product.
Architect: Only real complexity with architect lies in knowing what the different structures look like and which ones can be placed on which planets (equivalent to a DE needing to know what modules do and which ones can be used in specific droids).
BE: I haven't really done any BE or done much research on it, so I can't make any qualified remarks
WS: the whole certification versus skill box thing has added in a new element, but thats really no different than astromechs and pilot skill levels. Aside from that its just a matter of gathering the appropriate resources and stocking a vendor.
AS: Pretty complex with the whole segment/core system they've got, but thats not really much different than our chassis/module system. The variety of requirements and levels adds some complexity, but no more than we have to deal with with our astromech droids and flight computers.
Chef: Chef is pretty much the same complexity of DE if you removed the actual droid portion from it (and just had modules). They have a wider variety, but that doesn't add too much in complexity when you factor in the module combinations in droids."
Architect - May have to give u that one
BE - Just glance at thier forum real quick. Its gotten simplier but its still very complciated.
WS: Every subcomponet that a weapon needs, quality matters. They need to expeirement on a vairiety of things in every subcomponent. They have to know what to expeirment on and there is no anwser. They debate it hotly in that forum all the time. Speed vs damage, Dps vs SAc, etc...
In the final build they have 5 maybe 6 lines of expiermentation to use. They have to know every professions different weapons and what is important for that paticular person who would use that type of weapon. You could make 100 t21's and never get the perfect combination, i got the best possible combat modules on my server in the second try, repiar kits and ISD are somewhat difficult but thats only two items that we make, one of which is not that usefull(still a good seller tho).
AS: Since the CU armor has gotten somewhat similar and I think your comparisons are valid. It is however a much harder profession due to resources requirements, time to do factory runs, and in the end it is more complex because quality/resources/experimentation matter at every phase of the crafting level.
Chef: Once again i fall back to resources and expiermentation matter at every phase. They have less choice/complexity in thier final build but a commited crafter can make something better then a new one or a not so commited crafter.
"The points above pretty much cancel all the professions out, but then to add into that DE has droid programming (2 interfaces), thousands of module combinations, personalities, etc..."
I have never had to do any droid programming in my crafting. I assume you mean using droids can be complicated but thats a different argument. As for the combinations of modules thats just a choice you make, its still plug in 1 here or 3 there and they all are pretty simple to craft. Get best resource you can, drop in slot, max out single line of expiermentaion, and a factory run. A greater selection of how you make a final droid to meet a customers needs isnt complex craftings it more like complex marketing.
"Also, understanding the actual function of the module is much more complicated. Take weapons for example, you have damage, speed, range bonuses, etc. All straight forward. Droids you have "combat ratings" and "creature harvest ratings" and "Experimental quality"... all vague terms that don't immediately connect with a value in game."
I think those have more to do with flaws in the system then complexity. I can hit a 1xx creature harvest rating pretty simply but i agree that explaining it to a customer is difficult.
I would rather have complexity in crafting then complexity it marketing my product.
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 05:47 PM
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 05:48 PM
Jenden
Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:13 pm
#34
I think the main difference in opinion comes in the definition of "complexity of the profession". In my opinion, everything related to droids (their use, their programming, their function, etc) is part of the complexity of the profession, since you need to be able to explain these things to the customers. You're point of view seems to be strictly on crafting the droids (in which case DE is probably somewhere in the middle, mainly do to variety of possible combinations, the chassis variety, the sub-component requirements, stacking, and combat/non-combat/socket issues).
ninerOciag
Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:44 am
#36
"*Smiles at Rasal*
I cant be bothered hun.....its not like the old days
Shian must be getting old or something "
======================================================================================================================================
Im sorry i made a joke based upon the book i thought you where referencing. If you werent referencing "How to Win Friends & Influence People" by Dale Carnegie then i apolgize for what would be an off the wall response.
===============================================================================================================================================
"Of course, if he was a real DE it might be different, but he's got most of his postcount from galaxy trade forums, and the rest in here with nothing very interesting, so he's no Kollos, as an example."
=================================================================================================================================
My post count detirmines wheter im a real DE or not? I can tell you that generally i dont post in here because there isnt anything new to discuss and if you do a little searching you can have all your questions anwsered without making a post.
==============================================================================================================
"I think it might be best not to feed a ...ahhh nevermind.
It just aint worth it "
=====================================================================================================================
I already conceded the point that it was a matter of opinioin, no matter how wrong I thought he/she/you was/are/were. Thats why i made a little joke about the "you really know how to make friends and influence people" post and said game on!
If you would like to debate it logicly then id be more then happy to show you the error in your ways. Having done three different crafting professions myself as well as supporting many others through my guild and friends im pretty confident I can make a convincing case for DE being the simpleest crafting profession by far.
If you would like to throw around insults then do whatever makes your heart content.
I cant be bothered hun.....its not like the old days
Shian must be getting old or something "
======================================================================================================================================
Im sorry i made a joke based upon the book i thought you where referencing. If you werent referencing "How to Win Friends & Influence People" by Dale Carnegie then i apolgize for what would be an off the wall response.
===============================================================================================================================================
"Of course, if he was a real DE it might be different, but he's got most of his postcount from galaxy trade forums, and the rest in here with nothing very interesting, so he's no Kollos, as an example."
=================================================================================================================================
My post count detirmines wheter im a real DE or not? I can tell you that generally i dont post in here because there isnt anything new to discuss and if you do a little searching you can have all your questions anwsered without making a post.
==============================================================================================================
"I think it might be best not to feed a ...ahhh nevermind.
It just aint worth it "
=====================================================================================================================
I already conceded the point that it was a matter of opinioin, no matter how wrong I thought he/she/you was/are/were. Thats why i made a little joke about the "you really know how to make friends and influence people" post and said game on!
If you would like to debate it logicly then id be more then happy to show you the error in your ways. Having done three different crafting professions myself as well as supporting many others through my guild and friends im pretty confident I can make a convincing case for DE being the simpleest crafting profession by far.
If you would like to throw around insults then do whatever makes your heart content.
Message Edited by ninerOciag on 06-24-2005 01:47 PM
Jenden
Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:46 am
#37
ninerOciag wrote:
"*Smiles at Rasal*
I cant be bothered hun.....its not like the old days
Shian must be getting old or something "
Im sorry i made a joke based upon the book i thought you where referencing. If you werent referencing "How to Win Friends & Influence People" by Dale Carnegie then i apolgize for what would be an off the wall response.
"Of course, if he was a real DE it might be different, but he's got most of his postcount from galaxy trade forums, and the rest in here with nothing very interesting, so he's no Kollos, as an example."
My post count detirmines wheter im a real DE or not?
"I think it might be best not to feed a ...ahhh nevermind.
It just aint worth it "
I already conceded the point that it was a matter of opinioin, no matter how wrong I thought he/she/you was/are/were. Thats why i made a little joke about the "you really know how to make friends and influence people" post and said game on!
If you would like to debate it logicly then id be more then happy to show you the error in your ways. Having done three different crafting professions myself as well as supporting many others through my guild and friends im pretty confident I can make a convincing case for DE being the simpleest crafting profession by far.
If you would like to throw around insults then do whatever makes your heart content.
I'd like to hear this convincing case...
ninerOciag
Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:51 am
#38
sigh, ok lol
Im really not trying to insult anyone thats just how i feel about the situation. Im at work right now so i cant put an hour into creating comparisions but when i get home and have time i will.
Im a DE, I enjoy making droids. I wish that it was more intended complication and that there was a way to seperate yourself from any of the other average DE on your respective server but the truth of the matter is there isnt, as i hope i will be able to show.
Im really not trying to insult anyone thats just how i feel about the situation. Im at work right now so i cant put an hour into creating comparisions but when i get home and have time i will.
Im a DE, I enjoy making droids. I wish that it was more intended complication and that there was a way to seperate yourself from any of the other average DE on your respective server but the truth of the matter is there isnt, as i hope i will be able to show.
Shian_Tavkin
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:56 am
#39
Jenden wrote:
I'd like to hear this convincing case...
Well, purely as an observer now, and having heard the 'convincing case' I think anyone can see that its not convincing at all, quite the opposite in fact.
Given that he rates DE '6 out of 7' its fair and reasonable to say case unproved, even if that rating is still wrong.
In short, my earlier estimation has been proved correct, and the title of Tosser (Tm UK) can now be confirmed. Hopefully he will now think a little before coming in here and posting inflamatory nonsense. Somehow I don't think any such thing will be the reality.
Well spoken Jenden
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 06-25-2005 02:58 AM