Artisan Archive
Thread: I can't believe they really said this.
shilo2
Thu May 12, 2005 2:39 pm
#27
the other day i logged on my weaponsmith, after looking at swgcraft, my toon decided it was a good day to go surveying for a new spawn on ditanium steel that has the best HR+SR that my server has ever seen...
So i step onto the front lawn of my house on corellia....BAM!!!! insta-incap from a wrix that decides to magically appear beside me......so now i am essentially pinned into my own home, unless i can get a buddy to come and kill the beasties.
What a rediculous system this is...at least in the old system, i could wear a composite chest, foot and gloves and it would buy me a few hits,enabling me to get out of there safely...
now, i cant even wear armour, not to mention that psg's dont protect against kinetic. So its sudden death, either run past it as fast as i can, or to the cloners i go.
So i step onto the front lawn of my house on corellia....BAM!!!! insta-incap from a wrix that decides to magically appear beside me......so now i am essentially pinned into my own home, unless i can get a buddy to come and kill the beasties.
What a rediculous system this is...at least in the old system, i could wear a composite chest, foot and gloves and it would buy me a few hits,enabling me to get out of there safely...
now, i cant even wear armour, not to mention that psg's dont protect against kinetic. So its sudden death, either run past it as fast as i can, or to the cloners i go.
Message Edited by shilo2 on 05-12-2005 02:40 PM
Vaygirl
Thu May 12, 2005 11:56 pm
#28
Sorry, I meant components. Mainly the optional ones, like Krayt Scales and Tissues for weapons and that sort of thing. Not meat, hide, or bone. That's always been pretty easy to come by, even pre CU. People just got used to charging insanely insane prices cause of Doctor needs.
Vaygirl wrote:
Let's not mince words. The people who were doing that sort of thing may have had elite professions in there with their crafting, but I would guess that a vast majority had more then one account. That's the way it's always been. The system they're setting up now absolutely paves the way for the necessity of more then one account if you're a crafter. Otherwise you're going to be paying crazy high prices for components that other crafters simply use their alt/uber elite prof's to collect. Then they can sell their stuff for much cheaper. I'm sure Sony is laughing all the way to the bank. Too bad for the people who can't afford that kind of real life expense.
Message Edited by Vaygirl on 05-07-2005 01:24 AM
One thing to keep in mind is the fact that resources are coming in much greater bulk than ever before. Creatures that used to drop 100 for a Master Ranger are dropping 300 to 800; some are dropping over 1000 units each with the grouping bonus and a good veghash. A group of six (four Novice+ Scouts, one Master Ranger on Veghash, one non-Scout),got 350k hide in about three hours of hunting the other night. (120k was just the Ranger's.) If we'd pulled a little faster and not had so much trouble getting non-bugged missions, it would've been closer to 500k. At that kind of bulk, any Scout or Ranger can afford to slash prices.
Wyeth-SB
Fri May 13, 2005 9:55 pm
#30
DesktopSaki wrote:
(Quoted) Players who are playing the crafting game are, for all practical intents and purposes, invincible and are able to harvest resources in the Ancient Krayt Dragon Field.
It was this comment that convinced me to cancel my accounts. Obviously nothing has changed and just like all of the devs promises to smuggler's for over a year that magically never happened, I'm not waiting around anymore.
For all that remain, prepare yourself for more stuff like this. You're not too good to be lied to.
Atan
Fri May 13, 2005 11:52 pm
#31
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
With the current System it is still possible to be a crafter and a fighter, even with the maximum cl of 54 (after MA and a master crafting profession). CL 54 will keep you alive on the starter planets for sure and on the Adventure planets you will either need to take good care where you are driving or bump your CL up with a group.
And people who decide not to get enough combat skills get what they wanted, 2.5 Elite crafting professions and No combat skills.
Tripple incaps and DB'ing stuff on starter planets sucks, yes, that should be adjusted, protecting gear for non-combatants, well yes, why not? But people need to think of the fact that they decided themself not to get any combat skills, even Luke Skywalker had some combat skills (a bit of rifleman) and thats the one who the original movies are about.
~mutter~
Theinterviewed guy should get flamed hardcore for this piece here
Dallas Dickinson: We've been testing it for a full month, both internally and on the test center. We were simply not at the point of getting enough feedback from people. A number of things had come out, and we had fixed all of them.
Jeah, sure! 
"We are not getting enough feedback, thats why we released a beta into live! Testing failed, not my fault, have the customers take care of the bugs themself!"
Wyeth-SB
Sat May 14, 2005 9:06 am
#32
Atan wrote:
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
It's because it was the last straw for me and a bunch of other people. The quote was true IF you had 80% Composite (I never did even on my combat guy) AND you ran around buffed all the time (which I didn't). Ileveled 2 combat professions WITHOUT being buffed because way back then, the buffs were not all thatgreat, and I didn't have a lot of money to evengetthe substandard buffs. My compositewas around 55% and sliced for encumbrance. The only reason those highpercentbuffs andcomposite were possible was that the devs added/allowed both toattempt to balance the creatures vs. players. The devs CREATED the situation that they then used as an excuse for the new system.
Anyway, it's all history now and the new people coming in won't know of the past and will believe whatever the devs tell them because they don't have a reason not to. Little doubt, you guys who are left will go through your own "smuggler-gate" with something else. If you want a preview of what's probably coming, read the following. It's long but will give you a good idea why so many veteran players are just tired of waiting around for promises that will never happen and giving feedback that will be ignored.
Smugglers in SWG History - as written by the Devs
Message Edited by Wyeth-SB on 05-14-2005 12:07 PM
Slysix
Sat May 14, 2005 1:36 pm
#33
Why can't they just give crafters Combat level divided by 4? or even 5?
...that way the durnies don't remind me of the rabbit in monty pythons "search for the holy grail?
ShrekECPI
Sat May 14, 2005 2:49 pm
#34
I like the idea of a CL for crafters. Give crafters some bonus health and a diluted CL so they can at least use something besides a CDEF to defend themselves.
I have MShipwright, MArtisan,MEntertainer, Medic 0004 altthat gets incapped by instantly.
This system is going to force me to drop to an Entertainer 0044 in order to get Scout 4003 and be able to sneak past the bunnies(or whatever there happens to be) and to sample safely.
Cause right now my crafter has 900 health, that is two hits from a CL14
Message Edited by ShrekECPI on 05-14-2005 05:49 PM
- Alliance Soldier
DesktopSaki
Sat May 14, 2005 5:33 pm
#35
Crafters were not invulnerable in the old system. Maybe if you stayed on Tatooine or Talus, but certainly not if you strayed to the secondary or adventure planets. I only harvested on Endor a couple of times because of how dangerous it was for me--even with buffs, I ran a good risk of death (or spending an hour dancing around mobs) to check, drop or pull my harvs. I'd brave Lok, even the more remote regions of Dantooine, but Endor and Dathomir (and sometimes Lok) were off limits without buffs and a bodyguard.
The CU has made us even more vulnerable than we were before. Heck, during a harv run last night on Lok my Ranger/Carbineer lost a swoop and nearly got cloned due to three Canyon Corsairs sitting on her harvs. They were level 34--I was level 80. I'm trying to get help going up to pull the rest of my harvs with my artisan since stuff shifted.
Tatooine is mildly less dangerous now because Kreetles and Evil Hermits don't agro anymore. But the dangerous planets are that much more dangerous.
The idea of us ever having been "invulnerable" is ridiculous. At best, with buffs and/or armor, we had ample protection that we can't get now.
Giamai
Sat May 14, 2005 6:04 pm
#36
Atan wrote:
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
invincible? you are so wrong. one, this assumes that everyone had that level of armor to begin with. two, even with that, basically it simply was sufficient to allow you a quick getaway...sometimes. it did not solve the problem.
go to dath to do the crafting quests in the village...armor, buffs, i died every time preCU. nightsisters spawn on me and take out my bike, i can't burst run while stated. there ya go, i'm dead. i haven't even wanted to try going postCU.
what do i mean about solving the problem? simple, i have a tailor that lives on tatooine. pre CU armor and buffs i can get away when tuskens camp my harvesters but i could never remove them. took several tries to do what i needed to do. and we are talking about a beginner planet her. solving the problem would mean removing the spawn. that was not possible for a dedicated crafter pre CU and its even less likely for me to make a quick getaway post CU
With the current System it is still possible to be a crafter and a fighter, even with the maximum cl of 54 (after MA and a master crafting profession). CL 54 will keep you alive on the starter planets for sure and on the Adventure planets you will either need to take good care where you are driving or bump your CL up with a group.
this is where the CU shows a real weakness...forcing people to play a character different from what they want. why am i not allowed to choose to be solo? CU = forced grouping. why am i not allowed to be a dedicated crafter? CU = dead crafters.
yes this is a solution, but why is it ok for people to be forced into this mold? we aren't forcing combat people to become crafters.
RavennStarr
Sun May 15, 2005 1:09 am
#37
DesktopSaki wrote:
(Quoted) Players who are playing the crafting game are, for all practical intents and purposes, invincible and are able to harvest resources in the Ancient Krayt Dragon Field. That's not what we intended. We're going to be changing that experience for some people, people who have found their way around the game design in order to have a much higher crafting experience than should be available to them.
First I laughed. Then I cried. Then I just sat here competely stunned, wondering what colour the sky is in this person's world.
Somewhere, for some odd reason, there's a dev with TOO much time on his hands.
Atan
Sun May 15, 2005 4:48 am
#38
To the people who say "not everyone had the 80% comp", get real. Not everyone was soloing krayts, still it was a problem. Just because you decided not to get the "best" Armor it doesnt mean that there weren't like hundreds of peoplo who did it. And these people or better the mere existence of these Buffs & Armor was the problem. Adventure planets are supposed to be dangerous, people are just too much used to the old system.
Giamai wrote:
Atan wrote:
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
invincible? you are so wrong. one, this assumes that everyone had that level of armor to begin with. two, even with that, basically it simply was sufficient to allow you a quick getaway...sometimes. it did not solve the problem.
go to dath to do the crafting quests in the village...armor, buffs, i died every time preCU. nightsisters spawn on me and take out my bike, i can't burst run while stated. there ya go, i'm dead. i haven't even wanted to try going postCU.
Been there, done that. I took the trip usually only with a armor jacket (70% Ubese)and TKM powerboost, didnt lose a single bike. In fact i just tried a run to the village with my toon (MA, MDE, MPistol CL 54), everything conned red or purple to me. Aggro on the way to the Village: 2 times, times getting shot at: 0. Aggro on the way back to the starport: 1, times getting shot at: 1. A lvl 1 char would have been insta-incapped i guess, was a bit distracted and moving to slow at that point. Keep in mind that the aggro range is only 20m atm, so set your radar to 128m and stay clear of lairs. Dont take the straight line, dont tab out of the game and you are able to survive.
what do i mean about solving the problem? simple, i have a tailor that lives on tatooine. pre CU armor and buffs i can get away when tuskens camp my harvesters but i could never remove them. took several tries to do what i needed to do. and we are talking about a beginner planet her. solving the problem would mean removing the spawn. that was not possible for a dedicated crafter pre CU and its even less likely for me to make a quick getaway post CU
Lairs Spawning into buildings is a known bug (from a while ago), when it comes to random spawns you could try a combat droid maybe?
(on a side note, its funny that you used the tusken as example. Watch episode 2 again, simple non-combatant like moisture farmers where afraid of them and couldnt do a single thing agains them, makes your situation kinda star-warsy)
With the current System it is still possible to be a crafter and a fighter, even with the maximum cl of 54 (after MA and a master crafting profession). CL 54 will keep you alive on the starter planets for sure and on the Adventure planets you will either need to take good care where you are driving or bump your CL up with a group.
this is where the CU shows a real weakness...forcing people to play a character different from what they want. why am i not allowed to choose to be solo? CU = forced grouping. why am i not allowed to be a dedicated crafter? CU = dead crafters.
You can Solo, if you have at least some combat skills, i have done several RotW quest with only MRifleman. You can not demand to be able to Solo everything, this isnt a solo game game after all. You can be a deciated crafter... its just rather hard atm. You "could" stay inside of the towns and buy your resources from supplyers. Worth playing this way? Not for me, i decided to take up combat to be self sufficient.
yes this is a solution, but why is it ok for people to be forced into this mold? we aren't forcing combat people to become crafters.
Giamai
Sun May 15, 2005 5:16 am
#39
Atan wrote:
Giamai wrote:
Atan wrote:
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
invincible? you are so wrong. one, this assumes that everyone had that level of armor to begin with. two, even with that, basically it simply was sufficient to allow you a quick getaway...sometimes. it did not solve the problem.
go to dath to do the crafting quests in the village...armor, buffs, i died every time preCU. nightsisters spawn on me and take out my bike, i can't burst run while stated. there ya go, i'm dead. i haven't even wanted to try going postCU.
Been there, done that. I took the trip usually only with a armor jacket (70% Ubese)and TKM powerboost, didnt lose a single bike. In fact i just tried a run to the village with my toon (MA, MDE, MPistol CL 54), everything conned red or purple to me. Aggro on the way to the Village: 2 times, times getting shot at: 0. Aggro on the way back to the starport: 1, times getting shot at: 1. A lvl 1 char would have been insta-incapped i guess, was a bit distracted and moving to slow at that point. Keep in mind that the aggro range is only 20m atm, so set your radar to 128m and stay clear of lairs. Dont take the straight line, dont tab out of the game and you are able to survive.
tkm doesn't count ... most of the people here are referring to dedicated crafters. i.e. level 1 only. any other argument is irrelevant to this discussion. avoiding lairs etc is such an obvious thing to do the fact that you need to say it as though its new information tells me you haven't read any of the arguments. things spawn on top of you, nothing you can do about that.
what do i mean about solving the problem? simple, i have a tailor that lives on tatooine. pre CU armor and buffs i can get away when tuskens camp my harvesters but i could never remove them. took several tries to do what i needed to do. and we are talking about a beginner planet her. solving the problem would mean removing the spawn. that was not possible for a dedicated crafter pre CU and its even less likely for me to make a quick getaway post CU
Lairs Spawning into buildings is a known bug (from a while ago
(on a side note, its funny that you used the tusken as example. Watch episode 2 again, simple non-combatant like moisture farmers where afraid of them and couldnt do a single thing agains them, makes your situation kinda star-warsy
combat droids can't follow a bike
With the current System it is still possible to be a crafter and a fighter, even with the maximum cl of 54 (after MA and a master crafting profession). CL 54 will keep you alive on the starter planets for sure and on the Adventure planets you will either need to take good care where you are driving or bump your CL up with a group.
this is where the CU shows a real weakness...forcing people to play a character different from what they want. why am i not allowed to choose to be solo? CU = forced grouping. why am i not allowed to be a dedicated crafter? CU = dead crafters.
You can Solo, if you have at least some combat skills, i have done several RotW quest with only MRifleman. You can not demand to be able to Solo everything, this isnt a solo game game after all. You can be a deciated crafter... its just rather hard atm. You "could" stay inside of the towns and buy your resources from supplyers. Worth playing this way? Not for me, i decided to take up combat to be self sufficient.
i have never made the claim that we should solo everything...there was a reason for the combat rebalance in the first place. but as a leveling scout on flurry at level 18, i can't take out a level 15 bagareset on my own, which is dumb, level 15 is supposed to be below me. group up and get instant bonuses and survivability. this is the definition of forced grouping....you are required to group just to handle the basics. .
staying inside towns and buying resources ... interesting. you do know that every crafter that has to pay out the nose for resources passes that cost on to consumers. the affect is to lock out newbie players who can't afford what we would have to charge just to break even.
stilldoesn't change the fact that having FS crafting skills is a supreme advantage to any crafter. thus the trips to dath and thus the risks involved in lag spawns taking you out.
yes this is a solution, but why is it ok for people to be forced into this mold? we aren't forcing combat people to become crafters.
To the people who say "not everyone had the 80% comp", get real. Not everyone was soloing krayts, still it was a problem. Just because you decided not to get the "best" Armor it doesnt mean that there weren't like hundreds of peoplo who did it. And these people or better the mere existence of these Buffs & Armor was the problem. Adventure planets are supposed to be dangerous, people are just too much used to the old system.
adventure planets also have required resources for certain schematics. thus people do need to go to them to harvest those specific resources. you can tell me to hire a bodyguard and whatever (like combat people live to babysit crafters) but the fact remains that this is just one more reason to deter people from playing crafting professions or forcing them to take on professions they don't necessarily want just to survive. and that is unfair.
handicapping the crafters has already made numerous crafters quit the game. the sheer numbers have dropped on every server i play on and the prices have gone up as well. this affects everyone whether you are willing to see it or not.