Artisan Archive
Thread: I can't believe they really said this.
green this time
Multicolor quoting makes my head spin.
Giamai wrote:
Atan wrote:
Giamai wrote:
Atan wrote:
I can't believe people are that much in rage about this quote. All People (including crafter) where nearly invincible in the Old System (3k Buffs and 80% armor compared to 1k health max) and that is what i guess he is talking about, the Old System.
invincible? you are so wrong. one, this assumes that everyone had that level of armor to begin with. two, even with that, basically it simply was sufficient to allow you a quick getaway...sometimes. it did not solve the problem.
go to dath to do the crafting quests in the village...armor, buffs, i died every time preCU. nightsisters spawn on me and take out my bike, i can't burst run while stated. there ya go, i'm dead. i haven't even wanted to try going postCU.
Been there, done that. I took the trip usually only with a armor jacket (70% Ubese)and TKM powerboost, didnt lose a single bike. In fact i just tried a run to the village with my toon (MA, MDE, MPistol CL 54), everything conned red or purple to me. Aggro on the way to the Village: 2 times, times getting shot at: 0. Aggro on the way back to the starport: 1, times getting shot at: 1. A lvl 1 char would have been insta-incapped i guess, was a bit distracted and moving to slow at that point. Keep in mind that the aggro range is only 20m atm, so set your radar to 128m and stay clear of lairs. Dont take the straight line, dont tab out of the game and you are able to survive.
tkm doesn't count ... most of the people here are referring to dedicated crafters. i.e. level 1 only. any other argument is irrelevant to this discussion. avoiding lairs etc is such an obvious thing to do the fact that you need to say it as though its new information tells me you haven't read any of the arguments. things spawn on top of you, nothing you can do about that.
Where do things spawn on top of you? near lairs! keep away from them and you "should" be relative save. Did you read that part about the trip i did? the aggro i got on the way back was because things spawned on top of me, if it had been on plan terrain instead of the hills i had no problem even with that due to the speed of a swoop
what do i mean about solving the problem? simple, i have a tailor that lives on tatooine. pre CU armor and buffs i can get away when tuskens camp my harvesters but i could never remove them. took several tries to do what i needed to do. and we are talking about a beginner planet her. solving the problem would mean removing the spawn. that was not possible for a dedicated crafter pre CU and its even less likely for me to make a quick getaway post CU
Lairs Spawning into buildings is a known bug (from a while ago), when it comes to random spawns you could try a combat droid maybe?
(on a side note, its funny that you used the tusken as example. Watch episode 2 again, simple non-combatant like moisture farmers where afraid of them and couldnt do a single thing agains them, makes your situation kinda star-warsy)
combat droids can't follow a bike
Who's talking about bikes? the question was about tusken camping harvesters
With the current System it is still possible to be a crafter and a fighter, even with the maximum cl of 54 (after MA and a master crafting profession). CL 54 will keep you alive on the starter planets for sure and on the Adventure planets you will either need to take good care where you are driving or bump your CL up with a group.
this is where the CU shows a real weakness...forcing people to play a character different from what they want. why am i not allowed to choose to be solo? CU = forced grouping. why am i not allowed to be a dedicated crafter? CU = dead crafters.
You can Solo, if you have at least some combat skills, i have done several RotW quest with only MRifleman. You can not demand to be able to Solo everything, this isnt a solo game game after all. You can be a deciated crafter... its just rather hard atm. You "could" stay inside of the towns and buy your resources from supplyers. Worth playing this way? Not for me, i decided to take up combat to be self sufficient.
i have never made the claim that we should solo everything...there was a reason for the combat rebalance in the first place. but as a leveling scout on flurry at level 18, i can't take out a level 15 bagareset on my own, which is dumb, level 15 is supposed to be below me. group up and get instant bonuses and survivability. this is the definition of forced grouping....you are required to group just to handle the basics. .
I must admit that i have no idea how people are grinding combat at the moment, i'm lucky enough to have a finished template. But that has nothing to do with artisans.
staying inside towns and buying resources ... interesting. you do know that every crafter that has to pay out the nose for resources passes that cost on to consumers. the affect is to lock out newbie players who can't afford what we would have to charge just to break even.
Of course i know that it is not a pratical solution to stay in the town. But with leaving it you have to admit that you are getting yourself in danger willingly. Lower danger on starter planets, much higher danger on adventure planets.
stilldoesn't change the fact that having FS crafting skills is a supreme advantage to any crafter. thus the trips to dath and thus the risks involved in lag spawns taking you out.
Dont you think that end-game content should be ahard on people?
yes this is a solution, but why is it ok for people to be forced into this mold? we aren't forcing combat people to become crafters.
To the people who say "not everyone had the 80% comp", get real. Not everyone was soloing krayts, still it was a problem. Just because you decided not to get the "best" Armor it doesnt mean that there weren't like hundreds of peoplo who did it. And these people or better the mere existence of these Buffs & Armor was the problem. Adventure planets are supposed to be dangerous, people are just too much used to the old system.
adventure planets also have required resources for certain schematics. thus people do need to go to them to harvest those specific resources. you can tell me to hire a bodyguard and whatever (like combat people live to babysit crafters) but the fact remains that this is just one more reason to deter people from playing crafting professions or forcing them to take on professions they don't necessarily want just to survive. and that is unfair.
I stand by the fact that you still could get the resources by interacting with other people, harder but still possible. (grouping up to place harvester, hire them to clean a spot you need,hire someone toharvest for you,...)
handicapping the crafters has already made numerous crafters quit the game. the sheer numbers have dropped on every server i play on and the prices have gone up as well. this affects everyone whether you are willing to see it or not.
Unfortunatly i cant say a single thing against this
Giamai wrote:
ok no more rainbow text...just a few excerpts
Where do things spawn on top of you? near lairs! keep away from them and you "should" be relative save. Did you read that part about the trip i did? the aggro i got on the way back was because things spawned on top of me, if it had been on plan terrain instead of the hills i had no problem even with that due to the speed of a swoop
npc's don't have lairs...veering around lairs doesn't do you much good against, nightsisters, maulers, trade fed zealots, or tuskens. and due to lag they will spawn on top of you and bike you.
most crafters will agree that npc's are actually a much more significant problem than critters. partly because they can take you off your bike and partly because the psg's that we can wear do not protect against kinetic damage, which is the major damage type npc's deliver.
i admit i mixed 2 basic problems, going place to place and dealing with spawns on factories/harvies. they are extensions of the same issue however.
the rest of this discussion probably boils down to a difference of opinion. i don't think i as a combat free crafter should be able to take out the threats at me, but i do think that we should at least have the defense mods to allow us to get away from them a fair percentage of the time. if server stability is improved such that risks can be avoided, i'm good with that too. dancers have defense mods...crafters should as well.
hm, i had guessed thatNPCs have "lairs" too, ran many times into these NS slave camps on dath...
NPCs do kinetic damage in ranged combat? didnt know that, sounds like a bug to me...
And the defense mods of dancer/musican 
7 point per master ^^
If i understand the combat system correct there are 2 basic modifiers in combat, the lvl modifier and the acc + defense modifier. If i would want one for the crafters i would go with a lessened lvl modifier. That way hybrids and pure crafter can survive much better in PvE while pure combat templates still have the upper hand in PvP and PvE (more specials, mods & modifier). That andlight armor for crafters would be perfect, then everybody who has worked for it can survive, even with lagging spawns.
It would take carefull balancing not to be overpowering like the old system, but it would be the most player friendly version in my Opinion.
Atan wrote:
And the defense mods of dancer/musican 7 point per master ^^
Dancers and Musician get defense?
But they never have to leave the shelter of a city. Grar!
DesktopSaki wrote:
Atan wrote:
And the defense mods of dancer/musican 7 point per master ^^
Dancers and Musician get defense?
Maybe master crafting professions should get a small but reasonable defense bonus, just to honor the fact that you *are* dedicated to a craft, and thus you'll be that much shy of any chance of other defenses.
yeah they don't get a huge defense bonus but they do get something
the argument, if i remember correctly, is that dance skills make you better able to dodge and therefore you get a mod for it
so add in something for crafters, even equivalent to dancers, goes a long way to simply being able to survive an incidental encounter...you could rationalize it with sheer terror makes crafters extra jumpy and therefore better able to dodge
You are taking this out of context.
He was speaking of the old system, pre-cu. In that system an Artisan with no combat skills could get a buff, wear the best armor, add some food an spices and drive around essentially unmolested without worry of death. It was never intended that an Artisan, without combat skills, should be able to go to the most dangerous areas and not fear for his or her life.
I used to joke about this. My Artisan is Master Artisan/Master Merchant with some chef, tailor and architect thrown in. He has absolutely no combat skills. But I used to call him "The Combat Merchant". Why? Because before the CU, I could take this character to Dathomir and help friends fight Sith Thugs, Rancors or Nightsisters! I would run aroud Nyms and take pot shots at the elite guards. I would hunt Kryatt or Kimo. HereI am with no skills, but because of buffs and armor I could stand up to some of the toughest content in the game. That is surely not as intended.
Now, post-cu the "Combat Merchant" is retired. But I still go out and survey and lay down harvesters. I just have to be REALLY carefull and aware. In most cases I simply survey, mark the waypoint and then come back with a friend to watch my back when I place the harvester. Or, when emptying the hopperI always keep one eye on the radar. Another way to do it is Group with a level 80. Even if he or she is on another planet as long as you are grouped, your defenses will equal that 80. You still cannot wear armor but it will keep you from being one shot killed.
To sum up, it is a very different world post CU but I, as an Artisan , have learned to adapt. Others can too.
Regards,
DesktopSaki wrote:
(Quoted) Players who are playing the crafting game are, for all practical intents and purposes, invincible and are able to harvest resources in the Ancient Krayt Dragon Field. That's not what we intended. We're going to be changing that experience for some people, people who have found their way around the game design in order to have a much higher crafting experience than should be available to them.
My level 8 Master Artisan/Master Merchantis speechless. Partly because he just got incapped in one round by those Desert Demons over there.
Whoops. Deathblowed. LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
Message Edited by DesktopSaki on 05-06-2005 03:58 PM
What game is that guy playing, "the field". Please. I'm tired of this stupid and pointless level system, either you're level 80 or you're dead, simple. I have a freaking crazed durni, _IN_ my shop, and as an SW I spend most of my time there, so far it has incapped me 7 times in 30 mins. It's great, really is.... fix it already.