Artisan Archive
Thread: I am reading where folks want med and lg harvesters moved to higher skill levels or master
Ragnaat wrote:
Firstly before I begin I do not play nice who disagree with me so dont tell me not to roll my eyes or make witty jokes. Disagreeing with me once is ok, disagreeing with me a second time after I have given you ample explanation is idiocy..
If you are concerned about certain aspects of the current system then lay out the ISSUES you have and try and work towards some balanced changes. Changes that don't break other aspects of the game more then the issues you're trying to solve are currently broken.
There have been many before who have tried making this argument and well they have all since gone quiet. Instead of saying it would break something why dont you explain how it would break it so I can make my argument from there. I think you should read the "Artisan: The Welfare Profession" thread as the bulk of the argument is there and I think you would find enlightenment.
Saying a big FU to every non master in the game is not balanced.
Again how. How is it in any way saying FU to any non master Artisan. This is where I feel we dont have the same nationalities or speak the same language becuase you are either blind or fail to understand the language we speak in at this very moment.
Telling every crafting profession - large or small that the have a new de-facto pre-req is not balanced.
Again dont think you read my proposal and are just obfuscating the corectness of it while arguing for the sake of arguiing.
Coming up with a system that works for "most professions" is not balanced.
Name 1 profession it doesnt work for. Again obfuscating by arguiing. Wasting our time by posting half arsed attempts at arguiing.
Coming up with a system that makes it impossible to play on more then one server nevermine the 5(?) that you are offered is not balanced.
I also said it might be the necessary evil to limit 10 lots per account.
You're swinging the pendulum way too far - and I mean adding an interface that's impossible to macro *and* adding a timer too far.
Is that an analogy?
And the only issue I have with the current design isn't even being addressed because it will still be possible to get a leg up on the system by throwing more (real world) cash at the problem.
Theres nothing stopping people from doing it now, and if people can afford to buy 2 accounts so they can put 20 harvesters instead of 10 are you realistically going to be able to stop them in the present system? NO. But at least in the new system they will only have 20 and not 200 like in the present and overall the game will be more balanced in the new system.
Oh, and "10 harvester lots"? Please point me in the direction of the proposal you are talking about there time. Unless you are suggesting that I play on one server and have no house how might I be able to place 10 harvesters?
If you had 10 harvesters yeah you would be playing on 1 server with no house. But most of my examples I used 5 harvesters not 10. Thats 5 harvesters and 2 houses and 3 factories etc etc etc.
And on spice experimentation... that would be more of an artifact of a profession added late in beta and half baked then a bug and something that is supposed to be in. For all intents and purposes it is simply an unremoved skill mod and nothing more. There isn't a single spice schematic which has experimentation vales listed, there's never been a model for what experimentation effects (quality, duration, uses, etc.). Like Dodge on a Carbine it just doesn't matter.
If its there I highly doubt it was such a huge oversight on their part to take it out. And not like they would admit such lack of QA or that they were lazy and never got around to it. Im sure in Smuggler revamp we will see the introduction of spice experimentation because it has been a popular issue over in the Smuggler forums and on the smuggler revamp threads strewn out about the forums.
And lastly, don't try and be cute by asking for my password or rolling your eyes, it just makes you sound like a troll trying to pick a fight.
See opening comment.
Message Edited by Sinist on 05-18-2004 02:07 AM
Elite crafters that made their proffession an industry got trouble with the few lots we got and it would be devestating for player population as few would get what they need and wanted. Thus prices would rise like mad and to have good armor, weapons and harvs with goodBER would be an elite thing for the rich power players. Especialy Architects get hit as our factory use 2 lots and not 1 as every other factory use. All you guys wouldnt have to pay double or triple price for harvs now would you since I for example could only produce 1/4 of what i'm doing now. I sure as hell dont want to pay a million for an ok suit of armor.
*sigh* Too many rp'rs with "sleeping" crafter proffs that dont know the demand out there *sigh*. Try advert a bit on map and get the wourd around and you'll be soaked in work! You wont need a RL job couse you could work 24/7 in SWG heh 
We CANT have cert for Harvs!
Curxcha wrote:
Elite crafters that made their proffession an industry got trouble with the few lots we got and it would be devestating for player population as few would get what they need and wanted. Thus prices would rise like mad and to have good armor, weapons and harvs with goodBER would be an elite thing for the rich power players. Especialy Architects get hit as our factory use 2 lots and not 1 as every other factory use. All you guys wouldnt have to pay double or triple price for harvs now would you since I for example could only produce 1/4 of what i'm doing now. I sure as hell dont want to pay a million for an ok suit of armor.
*sigh* Too many rp'rs with "sleeping" crafter proffs that dont know the demand out there *sigh*. Try advert a bit on map and get the wourd around and you'll be soaked in work! You wont need a RL job couse you could work 24/7 in SWG heh
We CANT have cert for Harvs!
Sorry but i feel there must be harvestor Certs. ONLY for the Mediums and Hevies. I believe the Personal harvestors should be usuable by any one, including those that dont have any artisan skills.
But its is stupid to think that anyone should be able to use a hevie harvestor. In real life can you by yourself go into a Nuclear Reactor plant and control it by yourself with no training what so ever? NO. So why can a Master commando with no Artisan skills be able to use a heavie? the ONLY reason he is using heavies is to SELL the stuff he harvests and a huge volume that floods the market.
Do you see a Master artisan with no commando skills walking around and uning your best gun with NO penelties? uhmmm Nope....If the masses want to keep thier ability to use hevies, then i should be able to use all the best guns and armor with no penelties. and then... I wont need a commando in my group when i go hunting. that would be great.
Sorry but no. Certs i do think are needed. the market is flooded with resources that are not truely needed. i know this because i know now of MANY groups that have stockpiled Millions of units of meterials in gearing up for the expansion. I know of other players that can throw down 7 million credits for something on a dime. this stockpiling will demolish the world as well asanything else. when these stock piles hit the market nothing will sell. because it is not needed. because there will be to many of everything.
--Axler
AxlerTwinblade wrote:
Sorry but i feel there must be harvestor Certs. ONLY for the Mediums and Hevies. I believe the Personal harvestors should be usuable by any one, including those that dont have any artisan skills.
As a vet I wholeheartedly agree here, I have 2 toons and I hardly use MY BH's lots for anything other than to maybe place my factories. I see no reason where anyone other than an artisan or an elite novice crafter would have need for a heavy. Novice DE,AS,WS,ARCH,SMUG should getMediums (forgive me if I missed one prof there) and Heavy harvs should be reserved for Master Artisans or Master Elite Crafters. Where does that leave out anyone? You can collect a ton of stuff with 5-6 personal Harvesters with a BER of 5-6.
Sorry but no. Certs i do think are needed. the market is flooded with resources that are not truely needed. i know this because i know now of MANY groups that have stockpiled Millions of units of meterials in gearing up for the expansion. I know of other players that can throw down 7 million credits for something on a dime. this stockpiling will demolish the world as well asanything else. when these stock piles hit the market nothing will sell. because it is not needed. because there will be to many of everything.
--Axler
Great point here too, wait a while after the Jedi quest revamp and all the grinders go away and we will see that the materials that are in the market now(the grind stuff anyway) will go way down in price or be destroyed.
Sinist wrote:
If you had 10 harvesters yeah you would be playing on 1 server with no house. But most of my examples I used 5 harvesters not 10. Thats 5 harvesters and 2 houses and 3 factories etc etc etc.
Srednii wrote:
Houses take 2 lots or more you noob. ie: 5 harvs, +2 houses, +3 factories = 12 lots.
Aeron-Blackthorn wrote:
Srednii wrote:
Houses take 2 lots or more you noob. ie: 5 harvs, +2 houses, +3 factories = 12 lots.
Incorrect the small Naboo Round only takes a single slot. All other smalls take two slots.
oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that bug. I guess I'm the noob here
.
*tripple post*
Message Edited by JavelinCatcher on 05-18-2004 08:38 AM
Sinist wrote:
Ragnaat wrote:
Holy *%&$* you want to cert factories too? At master? So you could *NEVER* sell any spice until you're master smuggler because you can't get a factory and noone buys the stuff in singles?
You should be grinding to Master not selling bulk spices that arent going to be as good as a Masters anyways so you shouldnt be selling it just grinding stuff thatgives you the most XP.
And Novice Tailors couldn't fund their training by making synhcloth or wookiee padding segments?
They should be making items that yeild the moxt XP in practice mode so they can master,
Or even YOUR OWN NON-MASTER ARTISANs selling some powerups or fiberplast panels or repair tools or carbosyrup?
Artisans should be making personal harevsters in practice mode until they get master because someone could realistically get from novice to master in a day or two short days.
And then you're leaving profs like quad leaders who might want to craft their own camps in the dust because their profession isn't a crafting one and their pre-req isn't master scout but only the survival line.
Lol it takes two seconds to make a camp it can easily be done in the field no special crafting stations required. No real need to realistically mass produce camps as its only saving you a few seconds in the field.
And what right would I have as master weaponsmith to make and sell crates of camps having only invested n novice scout? Just because I have mastered a different profession entirely what makes me better then someone who is 4-4-4-4 Scout and waiting on a little AP? Or as mentioned above Master SL but with no need to train in harvesting or traps so wont take master scout.
Scouts arent considered crafters thats why. They dont need Artisan as a prerequisite. There is no real need to mass produce camps it is just a leisure. Again it takes 2 seconds to make and construct a camp with a regular crafting tool that all scouts have.
And is a 3-4-4-4 Architect forced to make the new disposable lighting uncrated + by hand becasue they're only 4044 Artisan as well??
They should be making things in practice mode not in factories which yeilds even less XP then making it by hand. And if they are short Apprentice points they should be parked in a very busy city looking for oppurtunities to train people not trying to make crates of things to sell. there is plenty of time to make money at Master when there is no XP to be made.
That's it... i've given this thread too much already... you folks are simply crazy
Your right our time is worth much more then participating in a silly forum thread! How honored are we to be blessed with your time, Thank You. *roll eyes*
I can't belive you just said this. "They should be making items that yeild the moxt XP in practice mode so they can master." You want to kill the market for non-master goods. The origninal idea of the game was that there would be a market for goods at all skill levels, not just Master. I remember WAAAAAY back in October as a 3/3/0/4 Droid Engineer and carrying around about 10-15 crates of premade droid parts because people would stop me and ask me to make a droid for them. I could do it much quicker than if I had to make each part by hand while they were waiting. It's good customer service to have your customer's product as soon as possible.
Lets look at this on the Macroeconomic level. Lower prices on inputs are a good thing. Putting in harvester certifications is going to shift the aggrogate supply curve to left creating a depression. (Note: most galaxies are already in a recession...higher prices, crafters going out of business/quitting because they can't keep up with the market demand creating a further decrease in supply). Note that a decrease in aggrogate supply is extremely hard to recover from. Recall the recession of the 1970's. Anytime OPEC increased oil prices, the price of practically any other good went up. This is the same thing. This will generate a increase in price of sellable resources because here's the mindset: Why should I sell my materials, when I can use them to make my own end products? Most people won't, so the ones that want more resources to keep up with demand won't get them, and we will have product shortages.